1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Understanding Acts 13:48

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 11, 2023.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    23,564
    Likes Received:
    862
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Acts of the Apostles 13:48 (NASB)

    When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of [fn]the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
    The Greek word translated "appointed" in the OP version of the verse, refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Since another Greek word (also translated as "appointed" refers to a unilateral assignment, some claim it was God who had "appointed" them unilaterally. Utter nonsense.

    They had received direction from Paul as to the Good News, and as many as agreed with and took that direction for eternal life, believed. Here is an alternate translation choice which suggest mutual consent.

    TLB
    When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and rejoiced in Paul’s message; and as many as wanted eternal life, believed.
    The Greek word, transliterated "tasso" is in the passive voice, indicating the arrangement has been established by someone other than the person accepting the arrangement. For example say someone is "placed" under authority and then gives direction to others. He has accepted the arrangement established by another. See Luke 7:8

    Romans 13:1 teaches that the governing authorities have been "established" by God, but note they are governing which shows their agreement with the arrangement.

    In Acts 22:10 Paul is sent to Damascus, as he has agreed to do what the Lord has arranged.

    In all the "passive" arrangements the participant agrees with direction given and participates.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    23,564
    Likes Received:
    862
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here are two more examples of "tasso" being used in the NT. Here the voice is "middle" indicating the action upon the person is in part being done by the person. For example in the sentence, "I chose myself" the person chosen was both the person acting and the person receiving the action.

    Matthew 28:16 - So the eleven disciples went to Galilee to the mountain Jesus had designated.

    Act 28:23 - They set a day to meet with him, and they came to him where he was staying in even greater numbers. From morning until evening he explained things to them, testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus from both the law of Moses and the prophets.


    In Matthew 28:16 the eleven went to the Galilee mountain location that Jesus had arranged with them. In Acts 28:23, the group arranged the day to meet with him.

    Thus tasso is used to indicate an arrangement by mutual agreement.


     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    23,564
    Likes Received:
    862
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The remaining two other usages of "tasso" are in the active voice, indicating the subject is taking the action.

    Acts of the Apostles 15:2 - And after Paul and Barnabas had determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue.

    1 Corinthians 16:15 - Now I urge you, brothers and sisters: you know the household of Stephanas, that they are the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves to ministry to the saints;
    In these verses the subjects are the authority figures that established the arrangement that was agreed to by those affected.

    Thus is every usage of "tasso" in the NT, the arrangement or governing direction is agreed to by those affected. It is never used to indicate a unilateral arrangement.

    Therefore Acts 13:48 can be interpretatively translated as:

    Acts 13:48, Yet the Gentiles hearing this rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as were in agreement with the direction into everlasting life believed.
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Van, there are scholars that have dedicated decades of their lives to research, study, and understanding Biblical Greek.

    Can you name one that agrees with your interpretation?

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This throws independent Bible study in the trash. What about the church "fathers" who agree with the Roman church unique teachings we Baptists do not agree with?
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Or, according to your thinking, everyone should ignore 2000 years of scholarship and just believe whatever seems right in their own minds.

    If Van really believes he has gleaned something from scripture that no one else has seen, let him publish it and have it peered reviewed.

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. Not at all. Cite what is actually true against what is not true. Mere denials does not make what is actually true to be false.
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please cite your source that “appointed” refers to “an agreement by mutual consent?”

    Or is this meaning something you just made up?

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ????????

    Mere assertions of the meaning of the passage doesn’t make it true. Show it is true by citing experts in Biblical Greek that agree with this meaning that is contrary to 2000 years of understanding.

    If he cannot, then he is changing scripture to make it conform to what he believes. History tells us that such actions always lead to heresy.

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course what is actually true does not change.
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,132
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A fine example of Humpty Dumpty theology.
    "When I use a word," said Humpty Dumpty in a rather scornful tone, "It means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." From 'Alice through the Looking-Glass' by Lewis Carroll.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Agreed. But having the spiritual discernment to recognize truth and error is a gift from God since God Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Additionally, God has given us His Word. God’s Word is Truth and Life.

    If we just decide that meaning of a word in scripture changes to fit our theology, then it really isn’t truth at all, is it?

    peace to you
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    FOI.
    Acts of the Apostles 13:48 uses τεταγμενοι masculine and Romans 13:1 uses τεταγμεναι in the feminine. Same word and grammar, different context who it is being referred to doing the action. The gentiles and God.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Doesn’t change the meaning of the word to “an agreement by mutual consent”.

    peace to you
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So we ought to be Roman Catholic too.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, this is about what is actually true.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A paraphrase is paraphrase.
    Who was understood to be doing said action? It is a non issue that it is God who gives eternal life. So it is commonly assumed that verb must refer to God, not those gentiles who were the recipients of the eternal life.


    . . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ."
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, again, is the word “themselves” in the text. No. “Appointed”, is past tense, isn’t it? So it’s not present tense “appointing”, it is past tense “appointed”. Isn’t that correct?

    peace to you
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,707
    Likes Received:
    991
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Agreed. But that has been done. And where can be shown.
     
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    11,069
    Likes Received:
    1,347
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It was sound scholarship on the part of the reformers that led to the reformation. They didn’t just make up words and insert them into scripture. They didn’t redefine words to fit their views. They studied, they worked with each other. They learned everything they could about Kone Greek and devoted themselves to understanding what scripture means.

    So, no, we shouldn’t be RC. We should be Christians that respect the Word of God and be humble enough to believe what it says, instead making stuff up.

    peace to you
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...