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Unjust balances

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004.

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  1. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Proverbs 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.

    What does this mean and how is it to be applied to our lives? What is a false balance?
     
    #1 sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004
  2. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    I am not very hopeful for the life expectancy of this thread.
     
    #2 Spirit and Truth, Apr 15, 2004
  3. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    I saw once on an old tv show this butcher was weighting people's meat that they had ordered, and putting his thumb on the scale to give a false balance and therefore a false dollar amount was paid, he stole that extra money from his customer.


    International Standard Bible Encylopedia

    How does it apply today? I guess you could say to be fair in finacial dealings, not to cheat anyone.
     
    #3 donnA, Apr 15, 2004
  4. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    When I was looking it up I was searching in the plural for "weights"

    This morning I found these verses too.

    Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight...11 A just weight and balance are the Lord's: all the weights of the bag are his work.

    Donna, do you think it just means a financial application?
     
    #4 sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004
  5. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Probably not. I think it could also mean to be fair in all our dealings, business, relationships, whatever. But then I don't know either, I guess I'd have to spend more time studying. Weights were used for finacial transactions(which may have been money or goods such as grain, again I don't know), so it could also be thats as far as it goes scripturally. Don't know, just thinking 'outloud'.
     
    #5 donnA, Apr 15, 2004
  6. Refreshed

    Refreshed Member
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    I don't think it just has a financial application. The weights are a picture that was familiar to everybody because everybody had to buy something whether it be grain, etc. It was also something that was easily corruptible. I think they signify corruption that is not easily detected such as those that would be wolves among the sheep.

    Jason
     
    #6 Refreshed, Apr 15, 2004
  7. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Sounds good to me Jason.
    We could say He wants us to deal fairly and justly with people.
     
    #7 donnA, Apr 15, 2004
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    There is also the prophetic tradition that ties such practices to religious hypocrisy (which Jesus also mentioned) and to traditions of both the Law and the Prophets that the rich are not to take unfair advantage of the poor.

    Amos 8:2-10, English Standard Version
     
    #8 rsr, Apr 15, 2004
  9. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Don't cheat.

    Treat all people fairly.

    Don't employ double standards.
     
    #9 Scott J, Apr 15, 2004
  10. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    But above, vs. 11 is "probably" not discussing buying or selling, or economic trade. Note, A just weight and balance are the Lord's: all the weights of the bag are his work.

    All the weights of the bag are his work

    [emphasis mine]

    It certainly requires more study from me but it seems initially to be speaking of eternal life; the work of redemption and all that is involved in that 'bag'.

    Just my thoughts.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #10 Frogman, Apr 15, 2004
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    And the implication is that YOU or SOMEONE is not being treated "fairly"? Not too veiled an accusation, my friend.

    BTW, "Fair" is a humanistic concept. People are whining all the time about this or that which doesn't seem "fair".

    (We get that on the BB all the time. We make decisions and folks say "that isn't fair". Hey, tough. This is a privately owned and operated Board and if folks don't think it's fair, then leave!!)

    God uses "Just" as a far better rule. What is right/just is NOT necessary fair.

    Hey, LIFE'S NOT FAIR and then we die. :eek:
     
    #11 Dr. Bob, Apr 15, 2004
  12. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    By fair we should (but don't always) mean by God's standards, not ours. Which is tough, we like things to go our way, we are selfish and arrogant and think all things should be 'fair' in our favor.
     
    #12 donnA, Apr 15, 2004
  13. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Dr. Bob "And the implication is that YOU or SOMEONE is not being treated "fairly"? Not too veiled an accusation, my friend.

    BTW, "Fair" is a humanistic concept. People are whining all the time about this or that which doesn't seem "fair"."

    I never used the word fair. I asked a legitimate question based on Scripture, what it meant and how it is applied.

    Rest assured if I make an accusation, it will not be veiled.

    I asked the question "What does this mean and how is it to be applied to our lives? What is a false balance?"
     
    #13 sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Point taken. Sermons just ooze out of me when I least expect them! I just moved in from the 'theory' to 'reality'.

    A false balance is dealing UNjustly with others.
     
    #14 Dr. Bob, Apr 15, 2004
  15. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Thank you. And I agree we have no 'right" to fair treatment in the human sense. That's life. And there is a huge difference in just/unjust and right and wrong, in God's eyes. But, what I am wondering is how we as Believers become just in our judgments, because at some point as we grow, we are to bring every thought into obedience, and we are to be holy as He is holy.

    Is it possible to attain a 'just' attitude in evaluating things?
     
    #15 sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004
  16. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Dear Sharpsword,
    I may be giving my opinion here, so any who think so, just disregard it for what it is worth.

    You are right, we are to be holy because he is holy; but, our difficulty is when we carry this holiness to a point to which we begin to believe in our holiness, our goal is to permit the Holy Spirit to 'sanctify' us, that is to both separate us from the world and also to make us holy.

    When we operate under any other motive, we do not have in view the holiness that is in Christ, but we begin to put on our 'blinders' and see only our added holiness.

    This is a bad thing.

    Now, we are in the flesh, is there any way until the resurrection we are going to resolve this issue that binds us to sinfulness while yet enjoying the measure of Grace that imparts to us the holiness of God through His Eternal Spirit?

    There is not, in this way, we are taught and I believe will ultimately learn to follow the exhortation of Paul to Timothy to be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And only in this way can we see that His Grace is sufficient.

    Otherwise, we establish those scales, though possessing a perceived righteousness, are only really designed to measure all others against ourselves, only God has the proper motive and justification for measuring all against His nature.

    When we make the scale, we make unjust balances. When we submit to God's scale, the balance seems unjust because we are yet bound by the flesh and subject to the emotions, the desires and the sinfulness of the flesh.

    To begin to think otherwise is to proclaim a degree of sanctification and holiness in accordance to our works and separate from the Holy Spirit (God in us working His will). Then we begin to establish our own righteousness and are able to see only that and any thing resembling it very closely as righteousness. All this causes us to 'fall' from Grace, (though if truly in possession of the real Spirit of holiness we cannot be lost), we are able to fall from Grace in the sense that we have laid aside the inward working of the Holy Spirit and begun to measure our outward manifestation in accordance to our own standard of righteousness.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #16 Frogman, Apr 15, 2004
  17. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    S&T wrote:
    I have had stuff deleted as well. Quite frankly, I am about done posting on this forum. It is too hard to debate without having a level playing field. It appears that others such as Malky El have already gone . . .

    MalkyEL:
    I would have to agree with you, which is why I am responding on this thread, as your original remark was posted on a now closed thread.

    My concern over a "level playing field" has kept me from responding for the last few days. I am no longer comfortable preparing statements and gathering supporting Scripture to be told that I have violated some unspoken code.

    I have seen deleted posts and deleted Scripture and I am distressed. Equal weights and measures. How does God view the actions and words of those who, at the click of a button decided what part of God's Word is acceptable or not, and who may or may not express opinions based on their position on this board.

    I fear that every instruction given in the NT concerning believer's actions toward each other has been violated. This is unfair weights and measures, imho.

    Gal 5:13 ¶ For, brothers, you were called to liberty. Only do not use the liberty for an opening to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
    14 For all the Law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    15 But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another.
    16 I say, then, Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
    17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
    18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
    19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
    20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
    21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
    23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
    24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26 Let us not become glory-seeking, provoking one another, envying one another.
     
    #17 MalkyEL, Apr 15, 2004
  18. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Based on the consensus of most that it is basically what Dr Bob stated "A false balance is dealing UNjustly with others.'

    And just weights means to treat others justly or as some stated, fairly, don't cheat, etc...I did a stack of cross referencing on this concept this afternoon.

    Is it something that is not only required of us...but achievable?

    I discovered that right back in Leviticus it was a God given requirement of righteousness.

    Le 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. (KJV) v 35-36 also

    De 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. {respect...: Heb. acknowledge faces} also Deut 25:13-16, 16:19

    As I crossreferenced it from those verses it took me back to the just weights ones in Proverbs 11:1,3 ;16:11, 20:10,23, 13:6 etc., but also into James 2:1, 3:13, etc; and 1 Tim 6:18

    What I discovered was that the whole concept of just weights and just judgments rests in love of the brethren, caring for others, and helping them, not having respect of persons (the scripts about giving wages, etc), being doers nor just hearers of the Word, and actually turns into a very basic Biblical principle. I was truly surprised how it all interconnected. I had never seen that before in this light. It is not only achievable in Christ, but expected as a part of who we are in Him.

    Dallas, We have no righteousness in ourselves. Our standard is the Word of God. In Christ we are to mortify our members and "add to" our faith, by the Holy Spirit, the concepts from 2 Peter 1

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
    4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
    6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #18 sharpSword, Apr 15, 2004
  19. Jeffrey H

    Jeffrey H New Member

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    Proverbs 20:23 teaches that you should be completely honest when you trade with someone. Using a "false balance" means that the scales are intentionally tipped in the seller's favor in order to deceive the buyer.

    Application: You buy 10 pounds of bananas, but the grocer's scales say 12 pounds. The grocer has knowingly adjusted the scales and charges you for 12 pounds.
     
    #19 Jeffrey H, Apr 16, 2004
  20. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    I agree, I thought that is what I said :confused:

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #20 Frogman, Apr 16, 2004
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