Vaccine and delta varient studies

[JonC]

Study 1 and real-life data
According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the Delta variant.

The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.

Vaccines had a protective effect against infections with Delta and hospital cases were milder, the study found.

Public Health England also shared real-world data in May that solidified the importance of having a second dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The analysis suggested that a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine offered only about 33 percent protection against symptomatic disease.

This was a reduction from the previous 50 percent effectiveness estimated against the alpha variant.

The study also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the Delta variant 2 weeks after the second dose.

Study 2
A reportTrusted Source published in the journal Nature reflected the findings that a single shot of a two-dose vaccine such as Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca provided “barely” any protection.

However, researchers also reported that people who had received two doses of a vaccine had significantly more protection against infection with the Delta variant, with researchers estimating a level of 95 percent effectiveness.

The study also found that the Delta variant was less sensitive to “sera from naturally immunized individuals,” meaning people who had a prior infection may not be protected against reinfection with the Delta variant.

Study 3
A study in Canada, meanwhile, found that two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine worked just as well against the Delta variant as it did with alpha. It has not yet been peer reviewed.

The study suggested the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was around 87 percent effective 14 days after two doses.

Study 4
A study in ScotlandTrusted Source found similar results. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, researchers concluded, offered “very good” protection against the Delta variant and demonstrated 79 percent effectiveness 14 days after receiving the second dose.

Study 5
A study in Israel was more of an outlier and found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine did not offer as high protection as previously estimated. The study suggested the vaccine was about 64 percent effective against preventing infection with the Delta variant and 64 percent effective against symptomatic illness after two doses.

But scientists have pointed out that the full data has not yet been released, and it may have included asymptomatic infections picked up by Israel’s surveillance program.

Study 6
A study that analyzed vaccine effectiveness in India, where the Delta variant first emerged, found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the Delta variant after two doses.

Effectiveness was considerably lower after one vaccine dose, however, at approximately 36 percent.

Study 7
A U.S. study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, suggests that the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine has decreased against the Delta variant.

The data found that the vaccine offered 42 percent protection against symptomatic infection with the Delta variant in July, compared to over 76 percent in January.

The study also noted that those vaccinated with Pfizer were twice as likely to experience a “breakthrough infection”, compared to the Moderna vaccine.

Study 8
An Oxford University study on the impact of the delta variant on COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness found that two doses of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine still offer significant protection against infection with the now prevalent variant but that this wanes within three months.

The study indicated that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine 90 days after the second dose dropped to 75 percent, compared to 85 percent two weeks after the second dose. However, this decline was more apparent in those older than 35 years of age.

The study has yet to be peer-reviewed.

Study 9
A studyTrusted Source, known as HEROES-RECOVER and published in the CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, showed that vaccine effectiveness against preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic infection with the Delta variant fell to 66 percent from over 90 percent.

The real-world study tested over 4,000 U.S. frontline workers, more than 4 in 5 who were vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines.



Here's How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant

 

[xlsdraw]

Oh look. Another JonC Covid thread.

 

[JonC]

Oh look. Another JonC Covid thread.

Almost (it is about various vaccine studies). Still, you are very astute xksdraw. I'm proud of you.

You identified that the thread was posted by me, in the "news and current events" section about news and current events.

Way to go brother .

 

[canadyjd]

The only study to mention natural immunity gave vague results (compare to exact percentages in other reports) saying people with natural immunity “may not be protected” from the Delta variant.

Does that mean they “may be, or they may not be, protected.”? Does that mean natural immunity gives 97% effectiveness, but since 3% might be re-infected with the delta variant you “may not be protected”?

In other words, why the vague conclusion in a scientific.study? Where are the exact percentages? Why not just give the results and let people decide?

It’s that kind of corruption of science that clouds this debate with suspicions.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

The only study to mention natural immunity gave vague results (compare to exact percentages in other reports) saying people with natural immunity “may not be protected” from the Delta variant.

Does that mean they “may be, or they may not be, protected.”? Does that mean natural immunity gives 97% effectiveness, but since 3% might be re-infected with the delta variant you “may not be protected”?

In other words, why the vague conclusion in a scientific.study? Where are the exact percentages? Why not just give the results and let people decide?

It’s that kind of corruption of science that clouds this debate with suspicions.

peace to you

I do not make public conclusions. I just offered those studies.

Elsewhere studies have shown that natural immunity results in a greater antibody presence which lasts up to a year. That's a plus for natural immunity.

It also showed that natural immunity resulted in much lower a t cell count (that the virus destroyed t cells) while all three US vaccines increased t cells. That's a plus for vaccines.

Studies have shown natural immunity to be ill equipped for the Delta varient and vaccines to be less effective (and vaccines to need booster shots). That's a minus on both sides.

They have shown vaccinatef people to have very low antibodies after 9 months but that tge increased t cells revented severe disease....but this was only with the JJ vaccine (to my knowledge).

In other words....I am for data but against conclusions. They do not know what the future will bring, future consequences of vaccines or covid infections.

 

[canadyjd]

I do not make public conclusions. I just offered those studies….

Studies have shown natural immunity to be ill equipped for the Delta varient and vaccines to be less effective (and vaccines to need booster shots). That's a minus on both sides…,.
.

Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to studies that show natural immunity to be “ill equipped” for the delta variant?

The use of the words “ill equipped for the delta variant” does draw a conclusion, doesn’t it?

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to studies that show natural immunity to be “ill equipped” for the delta variant?

The use of the words “ill equipped for the delta variant” does draw a conclusion, doesn’t it?

peace to you

Yes, it does. But that was my conclusion.

I posted it on another thread.....no clue where.

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, it does. But that was my conclusion.

I posted it on another thread.....no clue where.

Fair enough. Hard to keep up with all the threads.

For the record, I heard a similar report on Fox. Not that natural immunity was “ill equipped for delta variant” but that those with natural immunity that were exposed to D-variant were hospitalized at a slightly higher rate than those vaccinated. Both were relatively small risks, but since I’m in a high risk category, I chose to get the vaccine based on that report.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Fair enough. Hard to keep up with all the threads.

For the record, I heard a similar report on Fox. Not that natural immunity was “ill equipped for delta variant” but that those with natural immunity that were exposed to D-variant were hospitalized at a slightly higher rate than those vaccinated. Both were relatively small risks, but since I’m in a high risk category, I chose to get the vaccine based on that report.

peace to you

Yea, the high risk part is a concern (vaccinated or not). These are things people have to consider.

 

[Reynolds]

Oh look. Another JonC Covid thread.

He says he is not really interested in the vaccines. ????

 

[JonC]

He says he is not really interested in the vaccines. ????

What? Where did I say I was not interested in the vaccines???????

 

[Reynolds]

Yea, the high risk part is a concern (vaccinated or not). These are things people have to consider.

You talked earlier about considering only what you personally see and what you own doctor tells you. Only thing I have personally seen with Delta is the vaccinated people at my wife's work spread Covid to the other vaccinated and the unvaccinated.
As it now stands one week in, the vaccinated are more sick. It makes me mad these vaccinated super spreaders making everyone else sick. My wife's Doc said most of the positives he is seeing are in the vaccinated. Our county is less than 30% vaccinated.

 

[JonC]

You talked earlier about considering only what you personally see and what you own doctor tells you. Only thing I have personally seen with Delta is the vaccinated people at my wife's work spread Covid to the other vaccinated and the unvaccinated.
As it now stands one week in, the vaccinated are more sick

Interesting. If I were you I would consider not getting the vaccine (if they are the ones you see getting sick).

It is the opposite here.

We just lost 3 children, 2 police officers, 3 public servants, 4 coworkers (me), 2 coworkers (my wife)...all unvaccinated.

At work all of our serious ill and covid deaths are unvaccinated. All of our "breakthroughs" have had very mild symptoms.

University has 100 covid patients.

• six have been vaccinated.
• Five are on a ventilator. None of those five have been vaccinated.
• Ten are in intensive care. None of those 10 have been vaccinated.

So you can see why I prefer to be vaccinated.

 

[Reynolds]

Interesting. If I were you I would consider not getting the vaccine (if they are the ones you see getting sick).

It is the opposite here.

We just lost 3chikdren, 2 police officers, 3 public servants, 4 coworkers (me), 2 coworkers (my wife)...all unvaccinated.

At work all of our serious ill and covid deaths are unvaccinated. All of our "breakthroughs" have had very mild symptoms.

University has 100 covid patients.

• six have been vaccinated.
• Five are on a ventilator. None of those five have been vaccinated.
• Ten are in intensive care. None of those 10 have been vaccinated.

So you can see why I prefer to be vaccinated.

Why I prefer not to be vaccinated is the fact that no one knows what the long term side effects will be. There is already evidence that the immune systems of the vaccinated are impaired.

 

[JonC]

Why I prefer not to be vaccinated is the fact that no one knows what the long term side effects will be. There is already evidence that the immune systems of the vaccinated are impaired.

At the same time we do not know the long term effects of covid.

We do not know the future. There could very well be no long term effects of the vaccine, but you are right - we don't know.

For most there may be no long term effects of covid. But we also do not know. I have a relative who had a mild case of covid but continued after effects (he's in his 20's).

To date there is no evidence that the vaccine (or the virus) results in impaired immune systems. There is data people have twisted to suit their agenda (both ways) but we do not know.

I find it best to ignore covid politics.

 

[JonC]

I have read several reports of vaccinated people being tested for covid (several asymptomatic were tested for other medical treatments). They had covid but were not sick (sniffles, etc). This has happened at work. If I get a mild cold then I am supposed to report to medical for testing and wait for the results before coming to work.

There are vaccinated people with covid, but not suffering the effects. They are fine. BUT they can also be contagious and infect an unvacvinated person who has a greater chance of becoming seriously ill.

So I understand the concern, but at the same time I have to make the best decision for my own health.

 

[Reynolds]

At the same time we do not know the long term effects of covid.

We do not know the future. There could very well be no long term effects of the vaccine, but you are right - we don't know.

For most there may be no long term effects of covid. But we also do not know. I have a relative who had a mild case of covid but continued after effects (he's in his 20's).

To date there is no evidence that the vaccine (or the virus) results in impaired immune systems. There is data people have twisted to suit their agenda (both ways) but we do not know.

I find it best to ignore covid politics.

There is data that the immune system is negatively impacted by the vaccines. You choose to ignore it.
Ask your doctor that you trust if he is seeing higher number of shingles, mullescum in adults, and herpes a, in vaxed people.
Your 20 year old relative most likely has long haul Covid. 5 days of Ivermectin will get rid of it. This virus is very treatable if Doctors will just treat it.
My anti vax Doc has not lost a patient or put one in ICU since he started using Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. He thought they were conspiracy crap until he got real sick and gave them to himself. Went from should have been in hospital to back at work in two days. Now with the wide availability of monoclonal antibodies, Covid is almost 100% survivable if you find a Doc who is not a Kool Aid drinker.
I think everyone should take a few rounds of Ivermectin. You should see the nasty crud it causes your body to detox.

 

[JonC]

There is data that the immune system is negatively impacted by the vaccines. You choose to ignore it.
Ask your doctor that you trust if he is seeing higher number of shingles, mullescum in adults, and herpes a, in vaxed people.
Your 20 year old relative most likely has long haul Covid. 5 days of Ivermectin will get rid of it. This virus is very treatable if Doctors will just treat it.
My anti vax Doc has not lost a patient or put one in ICU since he started using Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. He thought they were conspiracy crap until he got real sick and gave them to himself. Went from should have been in hospital to back at work in two days. Now with the wide availability of monoclonal antibodies, Covid is almost 100% survivable if you find a Doc who is not a Kool Aid drinker.

I actually did ask in regards to pneumonia and shingles. Doc said they have not - that thus far there has not been any indication of a weakened immune system except immediately after a vaccination as the body is producing antibodies. Doc said not to pay attention to social media....too much misinformation out there.

I asked because last time I declined the shingles vaccine because I was getting a covid vaccination. I'm scheduled for the shingles vaccine next.

 

[Andre]

Oh look. Another JonC Covid thread.

Indeed, and one packed with actual information from credible sources and devoid of demonizing rhetoric. I know this is perhaps not the standard MO here, but I kind of like it.

 

[Andre]

As it now stands one week in, the vaccinated are more sick

Almost certainly misleading.

If you mean that vaccinated people are more likely to get seriously ill, this is false, at least for a statistically significant sample.

If you mean that vaccinated people are infecting others more than unvaccinated people are, this is misleading if the overwhelming majority of people are vaccinated - obviously if almost everyone is vaccinated, it will be the vaccinated who are spreading disease.

My wife's Doc said most of the positives he is seeing are in the vaccinated. Our county is less than 30% vaccinated.

Anecdotal, and therefore not really relevant. My grandfather smoked like crazy from age 10 and lived to 90. Does that prove that smoking is not harmful?