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Vegetarianism - The Highest Moral Ideal

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002.

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  1. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    Ransom,

    You can't make a case for exclusive vegetarianism or meat-eating from the Bible. Prooftexting is impossible with peripheral issues since the witness of Scripture differs from passage to passage. I think what each of us is attempting to do is make a case from the whole of Scripture. I am using the very beginning and the ideal endtime Kingdom as my starting points. Others are using everything in between as theirs. The simple fact is we have to make up our own minds and follow the leading of the Spirit.

    Daniel
     
    #21 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Humans were not given permission to eat meat until after the flood, if I remember correctly; so, we were not originally meant to eat meat.
     
    #22 Michael Wrenn, Jan 31, 2002
  3. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    More food for thought...

    The Bible teaches that (1) animals possess nephesh (Gen, 1:20, 21, 24, 30, 2:19, 9:4-5, 10, 12, 15; Lev. 24:18; Job 12:10; Prov. 12:10); (2) animals possess psuche, the Greek counterpart to nephesh in the NT (Rev. 8:9, 16:3); (3) animals have an affinity for God (Ps. 148:7-10, 150:6); (4) animals will be present in the eternal state (Is. 65:25; Rev. 5:13-14); (5) humans are similar to animals in that they share the same breath or spirit [ruach] and the same destiny (Eccl. 3:18-21); (6) animals await glorification as do the children of God (Rom. 8:18-21); and (7) the redeeming purposes of God include the entire created realm, including animals (Eph 1:10; Col. 1:20).

    Daniel Payne
     
    #23 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  4. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Go into a little more detail on that last post Daniel, make it more understandable please, if you don't mind.
    Gina
     
    #24 Gina B, Jan 31, 2002
  5. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    OK - I think the above post (mine) implies that animals were created more as relatives to us than we usually give assent to. I am not saying they are exactly similar, but that Scripture teaches they have the same nephesh as we, which is translated as life, soul, personality, etc. I also think there is something to be said for the afterlife of the animal. I, for one, would hate to be sharing heaven with an animal that I killed.
    If God cares so much for the animal, why do we give our ok to animal factories that slaughter animals for our selfish "good dining." It is simply not necessary.

    Daniel
     
    #25 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  6. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    paynedaniel said:

    Prooftexting is impossible with peripheral issues since the witness of Scripture differs from passage to passage.

    I take it, then, you do not believe in the unity of the Scripture?
     
    #26 Ransom, Jan 31, 2002
  7. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    You take it right, Ransom.

    Daniel
     
    #27 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  8. David Cooke Jr

    David Cooke Jr New Member

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    Daniel,
    Jesus pronounced all foods clean. That sums it up.
     
    #28 David Cooke Jr, Jan 31, 2002
  9. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    David,

    Have you read all the posts? The other posters and I choose to relate to different stories within Scripture as bases for our divergent views. It's as simple as that. I insist that normative Christian faith seek to be like the Kingdom respresented in the creation story and in John's revelation of the future Kingdom.

    Daniel
     
    #29 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Daniel, do you ever deal with anything besides liberal ideas? Vegetables aren't food; veretables are what food eats.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #30 Daniel David, Jan 31, 2002
  11. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    paynedaniel said:

    You take it right, Ransom.

    Am I to take it, then, that you are a theological liberal?

    If so, it seems awfully conservative of you - dare I say, fundamentalist? - to take a personal preference such as not eating meat, and trying to make it into a moral law binding on others.
     
    #31 Ransom, Jan 31, 2002
  12. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    I don't think I would characterize vegetarianism as a liberal issue; however, I can understand how anything I think compared to most other posters on this board could be considered "liberal." I suppose Adam was a liberal since he was a vegetarian.

    Daniel
     
    #32 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  13. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Am I to take it, then, that you are a theological liberal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No.

    I am not trying to make anything law. I am simply sharing what the Bible speaks of as idealistic.

    Daniel
     
    #33 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  14. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
    Daniel, do you ever deal with anything besides liberal ideas? Vegetables aren't food; veretables are what food eats.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ROFL! Ok, you probably didn't mean it like that, but did you just call vegetarians liberals???
    da Gina
     
    #34 Gina B, Jan 31, 2002
  15. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    #35 Ransom, Jan 31, 2002
  16. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>*shrug* You yourself said, earlier, in the thread, that "Scripture teaches two distinctly different things on this issue." If that's the case (not that I believe it), I don't see any reason to consider one more "idealistic" than the other.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    To some, the idealistic version is the way of peace. To others (I think it is safe to include you in this group), the idealistic version is the way of selfish appetite. I hope that's not too harsh.

    Daniel
     
    #36 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  17. aiki

    aiki Member

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    All this talk of eating and food made me think of Christ's decription of the Pharisees: "You blind guides, who strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." :D (Matt. 23:24)

    Gina, your first few posts on this thread gave me a good laugh. Thanks!
     
    #37 aiki, Jan 31, 2002
  18. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> All this talk of eating and food made me think of Christ's decription of the Pharisees: "You blind guides, who strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." (Matt. 23:24) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Your post makes me think of Christ's description of the Pharisee, "Thank you, God, that I am not as other men..."

    Daniel
     
    #38 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    paynedaniel said:

    To some, the idealistic version is the way of peace. To others (I think it is safe to include you in this group), the idealistic version is the way of selfish appetite. I hope that's not too harsh.

    Your argument is getting more bizarre all the time. How is eating meat not peaceful? We're not at war with cows and chickens, are we? How is a meal consisting of meat and vegetables any more "selfish" than a meal of vegetables only? You make no sense.
     
    #39 Ransom, Jan 31, 2002
  20. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> How is eating meat not peaceful? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What kind of warped question is this? If someone killed you for food, would that not be unpeaceful?

    Daniel
     
    #40 MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 31, 2002
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