Victory In Christ

“When swallowed, the alcohol is absorbed from the stomach and the small intestine. Absorption will be slowed by the presence
of food, or can be somewhat speeded if the drink has been chilled or has been aerated with bubbles of carbon dioxide. Less
concentrated drinks may have their alcohol more rapidly absorbed than stronger ones, so iced champagne drunk on an empty
stomach can be an effective way of getting alcohol to the brain quickly. After a preliminary pass through the liver, some of the
alcohol will be reaching the brain within minutes. The blood or brain alcohol level will then slowly increase for the next thirty to
sixty minutes as the absorption of a single drink is completed. Several drinks taken together or spaced out in a series of drinks will
result in the alcohol level going upwards longer and higher. But enormous variation in absorption rates can occur between
individuals and on different occasions.” Edwards, G. (2002) Alcohol, The World’s Favourite Drug. New York: Thomas Dunne
Books, St. Martin’s Press, pp. 6-7

 

Nothing there about killing brain cells as you stated earlier. Still doesn't explain why the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to say "drink a little wine for the stomachs' sake" and why Paul said preachers and deacons and elders were not to be given to much wine. Like I said earlier, if it is non-alchoholic wine(grapejuice) why would Paul put a limit on the amount they could drink? I'll take the Holy Spirit over science or your opinion any day.

 

</H3>Article found at http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/CollegeStudents/anatomy/Body_nonflash.aspx

and endorsed by the National Institute of Health.

Alcohol, after only 30 seconds in the bloodstream, begins to attack the nerve cells in the brain.

 

As to the Holy Spirit and the instructions to Paul and Timothy, that wine was non-alcoholic.

Look, we are getting nowhere here... just back and forth.

Tell you what, go out to the store and buy you a gallon of grape juice and drink the whole gallon and see what the effects are. I bet you will get sick as another poster said earlier.

Grape juice, while beneficial healthwise, can be damaging if taken in large amounts.

 

So Paul was giving instructions for those positions to not be held by men given to much grapejuice?

 

The verse says:

You said:

Those are two different things. The verse says we will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. You're saying that we won't even experience the lust of the flesh. If you want to make your point, you need to find another scripture for support, if it exists.

 

Actually, if one is walking in the Spirit, one is immersed in the things of God. There is no way that one who is walking in the Spirit will even have the desire to sin.

Linda64 is correct.

 

So you two say, but the verse and Linda's statement don't match. Given the choice between your opinions and scripture, I'll take scripture.

 

So a person can be totally immersed in the things of God and still sin?

Wow. I cannot find Scripture to back that up, nor would I dare to make such a statement.

 

Before you can decide what the result would be, show me a scripture that says we can be totally immersed in the things of God.

 

Galatians 5:16 Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

If one is not totally immersed in the things of God, how can it be said one is walking in the Spirit.

We cannot serve two masters. If you are in the Spirit, you will not yield to the devil.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God; resist the devil and he will flee from you.

If we are submitted to God, we can resist the devil.

 

None of that says anything about being totally immersed in the things of God. You're making it say more than it does, especially when it doesn't say you won't experience lust. It says you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

 

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
experience
EXPE'RIENCE, n. L. experientia, from experior, to try; ex and ant. perior; Gr. to attempt, whence pirate. Eng. to fare.The L. periculum, Eng. peril, are from the same root. We see the root of these words is to go, to fare, to drive, urge or press, to strain or stretch forward.

1. Trial, or a series of trials or experiments; active effort or attempt to do or to prove something, or repeated efforts. A man attempts to raise wheat on moist or clayey ground; his attempt fails of success; experience proves that wheat will not flourish on such a soil. He repeats the trial, and his experience proves the same fact. A single trial is usually denominated an experiment; experience may be a series of trials, or the result of such trials.

2. Observation of a fact or of the same facts or events happening under like circumstances.

3. Trial from suffering or enjoyment; suffering itself; the use of the senses; as the experience we have of pain or sickness. We know the effect of light, of smell or of taste by experience. We learn the instability of human affairs by observation or by experience. We learn the value of integrity by experience. Hence,

4. Knowledge derived from trials, use, practice, or from a series of observations.

EXPE'RIENCE, v.t. To try by use, by suffering or by enjoyment. Thus we all experience pain, sorrow and pleasure; we experience good and evil; we often experience a change of sentiments and views.

1. To know by practice or trial; to gain knowledge or skill by practice or by a series of observations.

experience means to try or know by practicing. I cannot see one walking in the Spirit and practicing lust. That is contrary to Scripture.

 

I think victory and growing is done in the hope that is in our hearts as we are saved by faith and so we examine ourselves considering our faith:

(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

IN hope we are confident that our Lord will make us strong, but our consciences convict us by not being able to see clearly enough so we have a fear when we see that we still fall short of perfection (although the type of fear that a child has of his loving father) and all we have is to go by is our faith by design that we hold onto in hope.

(Rom 8:24) For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
(Rom 8:25) But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The spirit that is in us builds our faith and in hope we would never utter in the prayer that we cry out to our Father in being repentant that we fear we do not have enough faith.

My quick 2 cents of rambling before things drift.

 

Huh? News flash. It's no longer 1828.

Here's the current definition:

In other words, you experience lust. This is a direct observation or participation - note that it doesn't say voluntary participation, as "I want this so I will participate", but simply participation. Note also that it's observation OR participation.

It happens to you and you know it.

 

Here's the current verb form.

Again, it means it happens to you and you know it. You experience it.

 

That definition does nothing to help your argument either.

a: direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge

That is saying that experiencing something is participating in it.

b: the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation

Again, saying one is participating in something.

The observing does not even work. For instance, can observe a beutiful woman walking down the street without lusting after her.

 

How did this work for Paul and his Damascus road experience? He was on his way to arrest and possibly kill Christians. He had no desire to love Jesus at the time. Jesus made the first move and changed his heart when he put him under "arrest" by blinding him. At that particular moment on his way to Damascus did Paul want saved? By reading the account in Acts it seems Paul had no desire to love Jesus.

 

Please read the post. I answered that before you did. It says observation or participation. Participation is not necessary.

More important, to experience lust is the verb form, which is defined as to have experience of. In other words, it happens to you.

You do not have to submit to your lust, and if you are walking in the Spirit, you won't. That's what the verse says. You will not FULFIL the lusts of your flesh. But the verse does NOT say you will not experience lust.