1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Walter Martin points out that the Adventist denomination is not a cult. Continued

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,405
    Likes Received:
    179
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Excellent!

    Now this wars against your "forgiveness revoked" misapplication of Matt 18. For it is revealed in the unforgiving servant that the actual occurrence/transaction had never happened. If it had, the servants heart would have shown the rebirth of genuine salvation.

    Secondly, since salvation is "not of yourself" , one cannot gain or lose salvation by forgiving another.

    Good stuff!
     
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,405
    Likes Received:
    179
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Now your on the right path! Not a loss of salvation, but never really had salvation. ;)

    "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 Jo 2:19)
     
  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Jesus is still building HIs body, the church, and He is not yet completed it, but soon it will be "finished" [Revelation 10:7 KJB].

    Jesus, at Calvary, laid the foundation stone, Himself, the perfect character, upon which all must be built to last [1 Kings 5:17; 2 Chronicles 8:16; Ezra 3:10-12; Proverbs 10:25; Isaiah 28:16-17, 44:28; Haggai 2:18; Zechariah 4:9, 8:9; Luke 6:48, 14:29; 1 Corinthians 3:10-12; Ephesians 2:10; etc., KJB], and thus was the beginning of the work, not the end, for if you understood the plan of redemption in the Sanctaury as laid out by God, Psalms 77:13 KJB, you would know this, and be able to see.

    The Apostles and prophets, are also stones, built upon the foundation stone, Jesus Christ, and we too are built upon them also, built into the House of the Lord, the Temple of God:

    Ephesians 2:19 KJB - Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    Ephesians 2:20 KJB - And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    Ephesians 2:21 KJB - In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

    Ephesians 2:22 KJB - In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    1 Peter 2:4 KJB - To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

    1 Peter 2:5 KJB - Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:6 KJB - Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

    1 Peter 2:7 KJB - Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

    1 Peter 2:8 KJB - And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

    1 Peter 2:9 KJB - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    1 Corinthians 3:16 KJB - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    1 Corinthians 3:17 KJB - If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    1 Corinthians 6:19 KJB - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    2 Corinthians 6:16 KJB - And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    2 Thessalonians 2:4 KJB - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    Revelation 3:12 KJB - Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    Revelation 11:1 KJB - And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    Revelation 11:2 KJB - But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Revelation 21:22 KJB - And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.​

    Thus, Jesus is still building, and is about to put the roof on [the final number is about to come in], and thus does not negate the various precious stones within that building from having the varied gifts He gave unto men, since His ascension, such as prophets. In AD 1844, when the Most Holy Place was finally opened in Heaven [Revelation 3:7-8, 9:13-15; Daniel 7:9-10,22; Leviticus 16 & 23, etc, etc], even as it was prophesied in Joel 2:28-29; Acts 2:17-18; and thus these are still the "last days", the last 2 Cosmic week days, the last 2,000 years as Peter cites, in 2 Peter 3:8 KJB, citing Psalms 90:4 KJB, etc.
     
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Not at all. Salvation, even justification, was given as the gift of God, which we actually received through "faith". This offer can be revoked, taken back as Matthew 18, etc reveals. Salvation which is unearned, being a gift given from God in His Son Christ Jesus, even when received by/through "faith", can still be given up, cast away, treated lightly or presumptuosly, and thus may be revoked, thus we are to "stand by faith":

    Romans 11:20 KJB - Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

    Romans 11:21 KJB - For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    Philippians 2:12 KJB - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

    The receiving of God's gift of salvation through "faith", is not the end, it is the beginning. We are to 'dress' and to 'keep' the heart garden, just as in Genesis.

    You wrongly treat of "gain" and "loss" as equal. They are not. The Garden of Genesis was a gift, given by God, unearned, unmerited [thus by grace], but it was still lost through disobedience which came by doubt/disbelief.
     
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Thus we keep telling you, there are two groups, two kinds of professing, thus the need of the investagtive judgment [Matthew 18, take account of His servants], but you won't listen.
     
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,405
    Likes Received:
    179
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You double speak and do not even realize it. Is it through standing by faith or is it through failing to forgive another as you keep pointing to Matt 18?
     
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,405
    Likes Received:
    179
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I think everyone on this board understands there are false professing and true professing believers. Paul said to examine yourself.
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    No, there is not double speak.

    1 John 2:18-19, speaks of the beginnings of the great falling away [and in order to fall away, they had to first begin among, and how did they fall away after first accepting? Paul told us ...] into the apostasy, thus leading into the 2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJB events of the Papal system [along with the harlot daughters], as seen in Daniel 7, Revelation 13,17, etc.

    Matthew 18, is dealing with the judgment in general, beginning with the investigative judgment, when God would "take account" of all who professed to serve Him, which would even include those in 1 John 2:18-19; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, etc., since in apostasy they still profess Jesus Christ [though they persecute and torture others].

    Future tense and definite time:

    Matthew 18:23 KJB - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

    This follows the Sanctuary service, as seen in Leviticus 16 and 23, for there is the "breatplate of judgment", in the Day of Atonement:

    Exodus 28:15 KJB - And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.

    Exodus 28:29 KJB - And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually.

    Exodus 28:30 KJB - And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.
    Jesus is speaking to Peter, one of His servants [Matthew 18:21-22 KJB].

    There is a specific monent in "time" when this "tak[ing] account of his servants" would actually begin, and there would be reports looked over, and each case individually brough before God:

    Matthew 18:24 KJB - And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
    It was found that the man begged God for mercy, since he could not pay the debt without total loss [Matthew 18:25 KJB]. God freely forgave all the debt of this worshipper of the Lord:

    Matthew 18:26 KJB - The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

    Matthew 18:27 KJB - Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.​

    Justification has taken place. The man is free of the debt, and is to now walk in the same Spirit as was shown to him. From that moment, time passes, as the "servant went out" [from the presence of His Lord], until such time as another report comes back to the King [Matthew 18:28-31 KJB] in regards this same servant.

    This is seen again, in the Sanctuary services itself. The Lamb was provided, the Passover, and even the daily. The person is forgiven, having in type transferred the sins committed to the animal, which was killed in the sinners stead. God provided the Lamb, thus paid the debt Himself. The repentant person was free from the debt, to go and live obediently, righteously, in Godly fear, contrition of heart, and of a forgiving spirit, as was shown to himself. However, there was still the day of Atonement, where all the in type stored sins of all the people, including the man, were presented before God by the High Priest in a single day. Anyone found not compliant with what God required in that forgiveness, had their forgiveness revoked, and were "cut off" from Israel forever, and cast out of the camp, just as those who will find themsleves outside of the city in Revelation, who had once professed in the Lamb.

    Matthew 18, is simply following the Sanctuary service unto the Day of Atonement, see Psalms 77:13 KJB.

    Angels, are now going over the books in Heavem as per Daniel 7:9-10 KJB, etc, and are looking at the lives of those who professed in the Lamb provided, starting with the dead, Hebrews 9:27 KJB, and soon to transfer to the living, Revelation 3:10, 17:12 KJB, just as it had in the old sanctuary system in type, for there were those who were forigven but died in the year before the day of atonement. Their names came up first. The living after them.

    Matthew 18:32 KJB - Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
    Who desired?

    Matthew 18:33 KJB - Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

    Matthew 18:34 KJB - And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

    Matthew 18:35 KJB - So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

    Forgiveness was revoked, the full debt re-instated ["pay all", under the "wr[a]th"], as he went from delivered from debt and payment of losing all, to "delivered" to torment and paying all], even as shown you from others who demonstrate the same thing, which evidence you asked for, and were given. This is the same as the Day of Atonement:

    Leviticus 23:29 KJB - For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

    Leviticus 23:30 KJB - And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.​

    It didn't matter how much profession was made in the Lamb throughout the year, or that a person partook in the Passover, if the fruit was not there in the Day of Atonement. They had all that time in probation.

    The Lamb gave man another period of probation.

    That you reject this evidence, is not my fault. I have declared unto you what is true/truth.
     
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,405
    Likes Received:
    179
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So was the servant lost because of not forgiving or because he was a false professor?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    48,452
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you walking in teh Spirit, growing from faith to faith, or are you trusting in keeping the Sabbath day and eating the right food to make you mature?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    48,452
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So Jesus did have His true church back in Acts, and still had His true church ever generation, so the Sda did NOT restore the true Church, right?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    48,452
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You NO scripture to back up that 1844 date, NO scripture to back up Sabbath day must be kept now, No scripture to support OT diet, NO scriptures to support EW as a prophetess!
     
  13. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
     
  14. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So, just some members of the SDA came up with your Church's official website and your leadership does nothing about it
     
  15. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    No, not a few members of the SDA, Bob. Your leadership is pro-choice. Why else would they allow the pro-choice statement on your official Church website to remain?
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    yes Walter a "few". Our denomination doctrine can only be set by world-wide representatives from the church that meet every 5 years and vote.

    Unlike your Catholic Supreme Court Justices that can meet whenever they wish and set the laws for abortion on demand in the U.S.

    Catholics who want "the issue but not the solution" will try to ignore that "elephant in the living room" - the elephant pointing out that the RC Supreme court justices dominate the Supreme Court and tip the scales in favor of abortion on demand, and it is for that reason alone we have this problem in the U.S.

    Thy do that - "as if blaming others" will cause us to forget that "the Supreme Court is dominated by Catholic justices" who tip the scales in favor of same sex marriage and abortion on demand.

    Your off-topic efforts Walter are not serving your interests as much as you may have at first imagined.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    True.


    You are merely "quoting you" again... you knew that right??

    How is it you cannot see what you do?
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Is this describing you?

    Romans 8
    6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    OR is this you
    Romans 8
    4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace


    Which one do you claim is taking God's name in vain daily??

    you avoided the question. What is the answer to the question for our claim to break God's commandments daily - which of the Romans 8 two groups do you claim to be in?

    What is your answer?
     
  19. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Walking in the Spirit:

    Romans 8:4 KJB - That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Galatians 5:16 KJB - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Galatians 5:25 KJB - If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

    Look at the context of these verses. Walking in the spirit, it is then that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.", and therefore, "no fulfill the lust of the flesh." It is not the other way 'round. Therefore, in walking in the Spirit. we understand the nature and depth of the spiritual commandments of God, and so keep the 7th Day the Sabbath, in love to God, for what was done in/through Christ Jesus, and so we understand that the Sabbath is both a matter of 'purpose' in God's will, and 'relationship' to God and one another. in the day itself, we recognize that our bodies are the Temple of God, even the Holy Spirit, and thus, since it is God who hath created us, He hath designed the entire system of the body to work 6 days and to rest the 7th with Him, and one another. To break this deisned cycle, is to break down the body, and thus bring about a slow self-murder. If we disregard this, we idolized time, and chose our own, over that which God chose, and so on.

    Think about a vehicle, such as a car or truck. It was specifically built by a designer, a creator, a manufacturer. It came with instructions on how to keep the vehicle in pristine and good running condition. To make the car run, it needs the proper fuel, gasoline, in the proper place, and in the proper amount. It has a gas tank. What if instead, I were to not use gasoline, but instead sugar, but poured in a full tank of sugar into the gas tank? Will the vehicle function? No. What if I used the proper fuel, gasoline, but the wrong location, and instead poured a full tank of gasoline into the back seat/compartment of the vehicle? Will it run? No, now it is a deadly mixture. This goes the same for God's Sabbath, thus it is called "the Sabbath of th LORD". The specific day, the 7th Day. It, of all the days of the week, is the only Holy one, the only sanctified one.

    The same example may be used for food/diet. Our bodies were created, in Genesis 1, to eat and subsist upon specific things - fruits, seed/nuts, certain vegetation. This has not changed, though there have been certain circumstances of emergency which were needed as a temporary means to live, thus the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, etc. If a person, who fills their body with that which is "not good for food", what difference is there in what they do, and what Eve and Adam did?
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Some of them .. maybe ... but none of them Popes.. none can dictate doctrine or morals the way we have the church set up. Administrators without the full vote of the delegates... limited scope. And certainly not any of them bought into your abortion-on-demand laws passed for Americans by your RC Supreme Court justices
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...