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War Between the States -

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Salty, Dec 16, 2021.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    #1 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
  2. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member

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    Thx Salty

    Just three questions for any … not directed at anyone. I have yet to fully read this but since you titled as you did I think you will appreciate

    1) if the war was fought over slavery, why did 5 union states have legalized slavery at the out set?

    2) … why did two of those states require the same constitutional amendment as the South.

    3) if the war was fought over slavery, why was the power of a man compromised to 3/5ths?

    a stain on our nations history but make no mistake … it was about increasing centralized power as the north’s industry was consolidating populations.

    and look at us now. A 545 crowned king.
     
    #2 Two Wings, Dec 16, 2021
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Point # 3 - the South wanted to count the slaves as full persons (for more representation) but the North did not want to allow the South (or even Northern States) to count the Slaves at all for representation - thus the 3/5

    "Slavery was established as a legal institution in each of the Thirteen Colonies, starting from 1619 onwards with the arrival of "twenty and odd" enslaved Africans in Virginia. Although indigenous peoples were also sold into slavery...) link =Slave states and free states - Wikipedia
     
    #3 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Are you suggesting politics was involved??!!! :confused:
     
    #4 JonC, Dec 16, 2021
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  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    From the Link above:
    "West Virginia did not abolish slavery in its first proposed constitution in 1861, though it did ban the importation of slaves from elsewhere.[26] But Radical Republicans refused to admit it to the Union without putting some limits on the institution. In 1863, voters approved the Willey Amendment, which provided for gradual abolition of slavery, with the last enslaved people scheduled to be freed in 1884.[27] On February 3, 1865, the state legislature approved immediate abolition"

    Which means WV was NOT formed because of slavery. In fact - western VA, wanted to secede for years- due to economic reasons - the War just made it convenient
     
    #5 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
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  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Very much so - in fact may think that the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves. Actually no slaves were freed - as it only pertained to those states/commonwealths in rebellion against the US. But it sure was nice for political reasons.
     
    #6 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    #7 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Slavery was a cause of the war. It was not The cause of the war. The war was fought because the Federal Govt had begun to centralize power past the point intended by the founders.
     
    #8 Reynolds, Dec 16, 2021
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  9. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member

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    The 3/5 compromise proved that the concern was power ...not in the notion of one man owning another.
     
    #9 Two Wings, Dec 16, 2021
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  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yep. Lincoln started the path of destruction for this nation. Worst President in U.S. history. He was even worse than Brandon.
     
    #10 Reynolds, Dec 16, 2021
  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Nope, that was Buchanan.
     
    #11 Squire Robertsson, Dec 16, 2021
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Lincoln. He did more damage to COTUS and more to strip separation of powers than any President in history.
    Buchanan was one of the most inept Presidents ein history.
     
    #12 Reynolds, Dec 16, 2021
  13. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    His ineptness led to the War. In reading Dabney, I came to the conclusion that the basis of the War was a difference in the source of citizenship. The Confederate leadership held that a person was an American because they were a Virginian, New Yorker, etc. On the other hand, many in the Midwest and West did not have ties to their State of origin. So, their primary identity was as an American and then a Kansan.
     
    #13 Squire Robertsson, Dec 16, 2021
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  14. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member

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    sadly not every one can be a Texan
     
    #14 Two Wings, Dec 16, 2021
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  15. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    My dad had a Texas passport - and he willed it to me!
    (when mrs salty gets home - I'll have her take a picture and then post it!
     
    #15 Salty, Dec 16, 2021
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  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Lincoln caused the War. His obsession over Federal powers was the most direct cause.
     
    #16 Reynolds, Dec 17, 2021
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  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Or did he think that platform would help him get elected?
     
    #17 Salty, Dec 17, 2021
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I actually think from my studies that he acted far past his campaign promises.
     
    #18 Reynolds, Dec 18, 2021
  19. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member

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    he is quoted as being concerned only about keeping the union intact … completely irrespective of the slavery issue.

    ~”if i could keep the union and slavery, I would”
     
    #19 Two Wings, Dec 18, 2021
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Any honest student of history would readily admit that Lincoln only freed slaves as a ploy to keep Europe out of the war. Lincoln did not support freeing the slaves. He supported returning them to Africa. Lincoln was a first rate hypocrite
     
    #20 Reynolds, Dec 18, 2021
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