WAR

And didn't someone once say "What is truth?"

regards
Bob

 

Typical American cop out,,When all else fails, blame England, Canada or some other country. Roosevelt was a traitor to England, he caved in to Stalin and then he makes out the hero by retaliating against Japan when he ignored all the warnings.

Blaim Chamberlain! Go ahead...We are quite used to the AMerican way...The way that brought Bush to the first war for his oil and the same Bush that will take you into another war for oil.

Ever try taking some responsibilities for your errors in the past.....Cuba and support for Castro, then kill him when he says NO to American domination.......What about in Asghanistan the first time around,,support these sour cookies when Russia was the enemy, but turn them around now that Russia is bending a little..

Canada runs to your doorstep when you are attacked and your blessed Bush ignores Canada big time and then lies to cover up his blunder......Is this the AMerican way? I Guess So!

Well you can have it. I an glad that I am a Brit. I am glad that I am Canadian. And I am glad I am NOT American......I am very happy for the few American friends I do have, and at least I now know who my enemy is, wrapped in arrogant psuedo-intellectualism and I suppose typical funadamentalism of the worst kind.

Cheerio, ta, goodbye

 

Jim

I would apologize for Bob but I can't. I will say that not all Americans feel the way he does. I suppose it the arrogance of the nation, we are always right and if you agree with us, then you might be right too. (I don't believe that, but many Americans do). I think too few of us realize that without the British and the Russians we would be speaking either German or Japanese right now. The British saved France from the Germans in 1914-1918 and exhausted themselves financially, physically and emotionally. Americans crawled into a cocoon. When the challenge of 1933-34 (Hitler's rise), the world in the throws of a great depression. The leaders of the world thought there were better ways to spend what little money there was than on armaments. The governments of Europe hadn't fully recovered from the effects of the Great War.

Still by 1938 the economy hadn't fully recovered. The British, French, etc. were still not economically strong enough to fund the military to the degree that was required to stare Hitler down. I know the phrase "Peace in our Time" is the one that gets Chamberlain the bad reputation. What else could he say diplomatically? Nothing. Anything else possibly have stirred Hitler up more quickly than he was. Chamberlain and the British had to have time. Chamberlain pragmatically bought that time (perhaps a year or 18 months) at the cost of his reputation.

As for Roosevelt. I think Roosevelt was a true friend of the British. One facet of history that is usually ignored or covered up is that Roosevelt felt there was a very real possibility of a military coup in the U.S. (This is one reason MacArthur was in the Phillipines - but MacArthur still had friends in Washington). Roosevelt had to deal with a noisy Republican opposition in the late 1930s. The depression wasn't ending as quickly as everyone had hoped.

As for the Japanese -- conflicting reports on the warnings, preparations, etc. I suspect that Roosevelt was quietly doing his own "peace in our time" thing behind the scenes. In the early 1940s (1940-1941), the American military was so undermanned that it was impossible to have challenged the Japanese or the Germans. It took the provocation of Pearl Harbor to change the political climate radically enough to do much about it.

Now, if the British Isles had fallen to the Germans, then Hitler could have turned his full fury against the Soviet Union. He certainly had the techological advantage over everyone else. Had he choosen to go for battle in detail, rather than opening up three fronts at once, the story might have turned out differently.

We Americans owe the British, Candaians, Austrialians, Indians, Russians, Poles, Danes, Dutch, and Belgains, etc. gratitude for doing all they reasonably could to defeat Hitler.

Jim, as I mentioned in a Private note, but will say publically -- my father is dead, but if I could I would adopt you as my father. I appreciate your words where ever you choose to write them.

Warm regards and with Christian affection
Jeff Weaver

 

Sorry Jeff, You know, I think, I would never do anything to hurt you, Clint, Robert, Murph and the other Primitive lads. I was letting off a little steam. Guess I got thinking of the 220,000 home levelled in 1940 in East London where I grew up.......the 4 young Canadian soldiers bombed by an American pilot...and virtually nothing from the AMerican side.....We had to beg for a word from your illustrious president. Then I thought of Korea where we had to dodge yet more AMerican bombs, artillery and gung-ho marines with semis, and more bullets than brains.......Sorry.

I will back off now and give the Board a rest.

Cheers, and thanks mate. You truly are a brother in Christ.

Jim

 

Bob,

I would apologize for Jim but I can't. I think he's a first-rate fellow from what I know of him on the board, but he seems to have little tolerance for the faults of those of us below the border, and fails to separate the sins of our "leaders" from the ignorance of the sheeple.

Some day it will become apparent that the same people are pulling the strings in his country, too.

Jim

 

Jim

I know that, wasn't even under consideration, and I would never knowlingly say anything to hurt another sibling in the Lord.

I surmised from your tone that you were hurting, and was trying to express that not all Americans share Bob's views. My father was wounded in the Pacific in World War II, never heard him blame anyone but the Japanese. My grandfather was gassed in France in 1918, never heard him blame anyone for it (in fact he made some German friends during the occupation in 1919). I don't blame anyone for World War II except Hitler, Mussilini, and Tojo. I think to do otherwise is a grave misunderstanding of history. Course there is a lot of grave misunderstanding of history about.

Warm regards
Jeff

 

My Dear Brothers in Christ;

The old adage says that hindsight is 20-20, and how often have we found our leaders to have feet of clay. The United States was wrong to have taken an isolationist policy. If we had geared-up for war, and been actively involved from the very beginning the Allies might have stopped the Axis powers much sooner. If the German economy wasn't left in shambles after WWI, the rise of National Socialism might have been curbed. Many actions could have resulted in a different outcome.

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http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/pages/t074/t07466.html

The St. Louis was a German ship which carried Jewish refugees in 1939. Of the nine hundred and thirty six passengers, 930 had landing certificates for Havana, but only 29 passengers were allowed to land in Cuba. The remainder aboard ship were forced to return to Europe, after the U.S. barred their entry. Most were murdered in the Holocaust
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Western doors were closed to this ship of Jewish refugees. The United States, Great Britan, Canada, are all culpable in the deaths of these who were fleeing Hitler. We could have opened our doors, and our hearts but anti-semitism not only condemned these men, women, and children to the ovens, but it also fostered arab apeasement and the White Paper, effectively closing Palestine to Jewish immigration, just as the Jews most desperately needed to escape Germany.


Let us never forget, lest we be destined to repeat. Let us remember a darkest hour in 1940, and yet one of the finest hours of heroism and human sacrifice for their Brothers:


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http://www.lifebites.org/sg_dunkirk.asp

The Battle of Dunkirk
A.K.A Operation Dynamo
The year was 1940. Some 300,000 thousand French and British troops were squeezed into a seven-mile wide perimeter around the French port by advancing Germans. Stranded on the beach with their backs to the sea and their faces towards the Germans, the allied forces neither had the firepower nor the air support to win the battle. Finally, the Navy did not have enough vessels to assure a successful retreat.

So a call went out to every vessel in Britain. No ship was excluded. Some seemed less than seaworthy. Private vessels, shipping lines, fishing boats, and pleasure crafts were all drafted into this rescue mission. Within nine days this unofficial armada of floating lifeboats rescued all 300,000 soldiers! This illustrates what happens in desperate times: People take desperate measures they would not normally take. These small \\lifeboats" were able to pull off a rescue mission that even the British Navy was unable to accomplish and became immortalized as one of the greatest rescue missions in history.

King George VI broadcast in May 1940

The decisive struggle is now upon us. Let no one be mistaken. It is no mere territorial conquest that our enemies are seeking. It is the overthrow, complete and final, of this Empire and of everything for which it stands: and after that, the conquest of the World. It is a life and death struggle for us all. And if their will prevails, they will bring to its accomplishment all the hatred and cruelty which they have already displayed. But confidence alone is not enough. It must be armed with courage and resolution, with endurance and self-sacrifice. Keep your hearts proud and your resolve unshaken. Let us go forward to that task as one man, a smile on our lips, and our heads held high, and with God's help we shall not fail.

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The United States was not there. We should have been prepared for war, we should have been shoulder to shoulder against a common enemy.

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http://aci.mta.ca/projects/Courage_Remembered/canadasroleinwwii.html

Canada's Role in WWII

From the Beginning...Canada entered the 1939-1945 War on 10th September 1939. Within two months the first contingents of Canadian troops arrived in the United Kingdom to supplement the British Expeditionary Forces (BEF). Forestalled by the evacuation of the British Army from Dunkirk and the Channel ports, Canada's role became one of defence of the British Isles. Far across the globe a small force of Canadians arrived in Hong Kong in time to meet the Japanese invasion, and fought with the British, Indian and Hong Kong forces in defence of the colony until the surrender on Christmas Day 1941.


DieppeOn l9th August 1942 troops of the Canadian 2nd Division formed the bulk of the Dieppe Raid. Of the 5,000 Canadians who took part, only about 2,000 returned to England: nearly 1,000 had been killed and 2,000 taken prisoner. A further 500 Canadians lost their lives when they landed in Sicily as part of the Eighth Army on 10th July 1943.


The Cost of BattleOn 3rd September a combined Canadian, British and American force made the first full-scale invasion of mainland Europe, attacking on the 'toe' of Italy and reaching Naples on 1st October. Canadian troops fought at Ortona and Monte Cassino and in May 1944 took part in the costly, but successful, attack on the Hitler line: the first major operation by a Canadian corps in the 1939-1945 War. The battle northwards through Italy continued to the war's end and ultimately cost the lives of nearly 6,000 Canadians.

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The free world is once again confronted with a common enemy. The face of this new enemy is insidious and wide-spread, among many nations and peoples. The commonality is to spread terror, and destruction, and is willing to use any means necessary to butcher any who are not of their faith.

We must stand united, shoulder to shoulder to confront those who would indisciminatly butcher men, women, and children, to solidify their power and to wreck havoc against western democracy. Our leaders must be united as one against an enemy dwelling not only on foreign shores, but amongst our own peoples, and ready to lash out at a moments notice.

We must pray for our leaders, Prime Minister Chrétien, Prime Minister Blair, President Bush, and each of those allied with our just cause in the face of evil and anarchy. My dear Brothers in Christ, let us take a deep breath, step back a step, and then let us come together as Brothers in Christ, children of the living God, in unconditional love one for another, and inprayer for our leaders, our troops, our nations, and all who are targets of evil, and let us pray for our common enemy, that the shackles of bondage be broken, and the glorious Light of Christ might pierce through the darkness and set the captives free.

May God so bless His children.

A servant of Christ,
Drew

 

Hey, Drew, great book!

This is truth.

NKJV, this tells what is right.

 

To Whom it may Concern:

I lost my temper. There is no excuse for it, and I apologize. I get a little upset when it comes to the war and the bombs over London at the outset, and the malicious maligning of a Prime Minister of England who had Great Britain in his heart.

Nothing more needs to be said. My friends know me and how I feel, and the Lord knows my heart; nothing else matters.

Again, I should not have lost my temper.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I voted for Bush and I pray for Bush and I will fight in the trenches beside Bush, even though I'm older now and served my country during Viet Nam.

I believe we should have "cleaned house" when we were over there the first time!!!

Rufus

 

I wonder if we might not draw an application from history to today. Regardless of his heart, I think history has shown Churchill to be misguided and wrong in his approach. There were those who though the containment of Hitler would suffice. History, at great cost, showed them wrong. Thousands of American soldiers spilled their blood on the continent to bail out the Europeans. It was the right thing for us to do, but it was costly. The US footed a large portion of the bill for the rebuilding both of Europe and Asia.

Now, we see a threat from an apparently Hitleresque dictator who many desire to appease. This time the stakes are higher because of WMD and the ease of travel and movement of troops. Why are we so quick to let him go? Have we not been down this road once.

Some on this thread have complained of the slowness of the US to get involved in WWII and WWI. Yet know some are saying we should be slower.

Lettermen, shown on FOX news last night had this line: The French are asking for more evidence before they commit. The last time they asked for more evidence, it rolled through Paris in tanks.

A hilarious line with a truth with remembering.

 

"...In personally contemplating our attack upon Iraq, my hawkish side says, "Go get 'em." As a Christian and lover of truth, however, it seems imperative that we would never allow our country to wage an unjust war to satisfy the commercial or political appetites of politicians, for in doing so we would find ourselves fighting against God.

When America fought its war for independence (a just war), Frances Scott Key wrote the song that became our National Anthem. It includes these words: "Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just; And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust!'" Americans should never be satisfied with anything less!"

From: http://covenantnews.com/baldwin030211.htm

 

Brother Jim, this may be bringing up a sour note, but I've been thinking about this comment, so I wish to address this.

I agree with you. I remember at the time how some of the Canadian headlines were angry at America because our President didn't even apologize to Canada and express regret & sympathy until he was admonished for it and then it was a half-hearted apology. Personally, I think it was terrible. And I don't blame Canadians one bit for feeling some resentment or bitterness. To me, it showed not only a lack of statesmanship from the (dare I say it) leader of the only super power left, but it was downright tacky!

But I noticed the same thing when Mr. Sharon was visiting the White House and another homicide bombing had occurred in Israel while he was visiting here. There was a joint press conference and our President didn't even make a comment about what had just happened in Israel until he was asked by a reporter! I felt at the time, there was a lack of Statesmanship and as an American, felt embarrassed by it, as well.

America's best friends on the planet through many years have been Canada, Australia, Great Britain, and Israel. I cannot forget the relationship between our countries even though some in American leadership seem to forget, or maybe they just don't have much class.

Cheerio, my neighbor to the North. Please don't judge all of us by the self-serving interests of a few in our leadership. They are not the ones fighting side by side in the trenches either in war or in peace.

 

My son-in-law and my one daughter are both AMericans. My son-in-law by birth and my daughter by choice. My granddaughers are both American. I have many, many friends who are American. I have no ill feelings against Americans.

On the shoulder of my old army uniform is a small rectangular patch, blue in colour with a gold braid around it. It was awarded during Korean services. Do you know what it is? It is a presidential citation, the highest honour a president can give to a foreign serviceman. My whole regiment was awarded this citation. The American paratroops dropped their entire force into a rice paddy and were being fired at on three sides. My regiment went in, cleared a perimeter and led the stranded Americans to safety. I have very strong feelings for Americans.

On the other hand, I lived through WWII as a schoolboy in London during the heinous bombing. It is a sad memory. I also knew the state of England's unpreparedness to face such a foe as the German military which had been allowed to rebuild and rearm despite the treaties of WWI. All nations allowed this to happen. England is a small island nation. Some don't appreciate how small it is. No one place in all of England is more than 50 miles from the sea.....that's how small.

The most powerful army on the continent was in France, but it did nothing, even when it had opportunity. England took its meagre army and attended to the onslaught by Germany on the Scandanavian contries. We were driven back and eventually escaped, despite humiliation and many losses. This was the England the ill prime minister came home to and declared "Peace in our time." He knew what was going to happen. He also knew what would have happened if he had done otherwise. The Hilter of Germans would have turned west and England would have been finished. Then where would we be to-day. England had time to prepare and then assault the enemy; England and the Empire. Using wallpaper to mend aircraft wings that came back half shot off and get them back into the air. The homeguard armed themselves often with wooden rifles to fool the enemy; the Polish used pitchforks and shovels as weapons and we could go on and on with such efforts to halt evil.

This will be my final say on this matter, but we must always be kind to each other. Some countries underwent the unimaginable, including the German people themselves. We must never, never forget, and perhaps adopt the veteran's cry, Never Again! Speaking of youth we say; It was our war; it is their (youth's) legacy. God help us all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Do you remember if that was the 82nd Airborne?

My uncle was in the 82nd and said he missed a mission in Korea where the 82nd parachuted into
a nasty situation...similar to what you listed above.

Just curious. Perhaps you saved some of his friends lives.

-kman

 

K-man,
There were only two airborne units in Korea, the 101 and the 82. My memory does not serve me on which one it was, but I think it was the 82nd. It was, however, at Kapyong, if you can determine the location from family members.

The 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry, has a unique distinction. This battalion received the Distinguished Unit Citation from the President of the United States to recognize its stand near Kapyong, Korea, in April 1951.

The Presidential Citation is worn on the uniform, upper left shoulder. It is a small royal blue bar with gold trim. Although battle honours are awarded on a regimental basis, and the whole of the PPCLI carries Kapyong on its colours, the distinction of bearing this streamer belongs to 2 PPCLI alone, and is carried on the battalions regimental colour. The badge is also unique to 2PPCLI.

At funerals of our mates, we shout "Air Borne". That is the formal farewell to comrades in arms.

As a point of interest, this is the same regiment that was accidentally bombed recently in Afghanistan, and four soldiers were killed.

Cheers,

B 179755 Capt Jim, Padre