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Featured Warning: anyone who is a habitual sinner is NOT in a saved state

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Samuels, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    By “habitual sinner” we mean a person who repeatedly sins without repentance. This means everyone (BACs included) … because everyone can choose to sin. Repentance means to hate your sin, run from it, and don’t do it anymore. If one does slip up and sins again, he/she can repent again as in 1 John 1:7-9. This is repeated until he/she has overcome the sin, i.e. gained victory over it.

    All habitual sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God …
    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom of God.”
    (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NKJV)

    Please note: the BAC has become unrighteous,
    if he/she chooses to live in a lifestyle of habitual sinning.

    All habitual sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God …
    “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21, NLT)
    “those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:21, NKJV)


    All habitual sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of Christ,
    but instead they will experience the anger/wrath of God …

    “Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.”
    (Ephesians 5:3-6, NLT)
    “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because
    of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:6, NKJV)


    All habitual sinners will experience the anger/wrath of God
    “So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.”
    (Colossians 3:5-6, NLT)
    “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience” (Colossians 3:6, NKJV)


    All habitual sinners will go into the lake of fire …
    “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. BUT the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
    (Revelation 21:7-8, NKJV)

    May I warn you with all sincerity that “the cowardly” includes those BACs in the world (even now) who fall away from the faith during the persecution of Christians.
    And “the cowardly” will include those BACs who submit to taking the mark of the beast, which is submitting to the ownership of the antichrist, i.e. Satan.

    All habitual sinners will not have the right to the tree
    of life, and will not be allowed into the city of the New Jerusalem …

    “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15, NKJV)

    I wanted to add ...
    4 times in John 14, Jesus said (I'm paraphrasing) ...
    "Those who love Me obey My commandments."
    Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?

    BACs = born-again Christians
     
    #1 Samuels, Oct 27, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The person really saved stillhas that old sin nature trying to reassert itself again, as does his fleah, and the christian can still fall into sinning, but will not want to just stay there, as will expereince conviction by the Holy Spirit. John is speaking about thse claiming to know Jesus and are now saved, yet still living as they once did, and have conviction nor desire to change!
     
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Your post is so full of errors that is difficult to know where to begin. A person is either in Christ or not in Christ. They cannot move in and out of a state of grace. 1 John 1:7 states, "but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin - past present and future. Verse 8-10 deal with the heretical gnostic notion that there is no sin. 1 John 1:8-10 "8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

    Christians regularly sin. There is still abiding sin in our lives and have not yet been delivered from this body of sin. The Apostle Paul deals with this issue specifically in Romans 7:

    Romans 7:14-25 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

    Paul continues in Romans 8, the great crescendo of our victory over sin and death. Paul makes the following statements:

    Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. (v. 1-2)

    However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. (v. 9)

    But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (v. 11)

    For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (v. 14)

    The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, (v. 16)

    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. (v. 23)

    In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; (v. 26)

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (v. 28-30)

    Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, “FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.” But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (v. 33-39)
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Good News is not that God placed us all on a spiritual probationary period, in order to make sure we can act good enough to merit eternal life, but that He by grace decided to adopt us warts and all!
     
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 6:6 teaches us that if a person could lose their salvation (falling away) that it would be impossible to bring that person back into a state of repentance.

    So, if you continue to claim a "BAC", as you put it, can lose their salvation, please be consistent with scripture and say they cannot regain salvation afterward.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Warning: anyone who is a habitual sinner is NOT in a saved state

    Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

    21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
    22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
    23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
    25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and I have never read/heard any who believed one can lose Jesus say that !
     
  8. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    IMO, because of the many NT verses which threaten loss of salvation, being "in Christ" refers to a BAC who is in a state of continued righteousness, which means he/she is co-operating with the Holy Spirit in the process of being sanctified.
    He/she is practicing righteousness and is doing his/her best
    to be obedient to Jesus' commandments.
    He/she is NOT a habitual unrepentant sinner.
    All of this is walking in the light.
    Walking in the light does not refer to being born-again.

    To fit with the verses in the OP ...
    your "all sin" refers to the sins that the faithful BAC
    is repenting of ... as he/she walks on the narrow path,
    as per 1 John 1:7-9.
     
    #8 Samuels, Oct 27, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Being In Christ means that the Holy Spirit Himself has sealed them into the Body of Christ, thru receiving Jjesus thru faith, nothing to do with any good works!
     
  10. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Out of the 7 churches that Jesus had John write to
    for Him, He ordered 5 of them to repent.
    I know, so they would get lots of rewards!
    Yeah, right.

    [Edited: Discussing Moderator action in open forum]
     
    #10 Samuels, Oct 27, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Can a real Christian lose their eternal life in Christ?
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Oct 27, 2018
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  12. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    I would say, "No".

    " Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( John 3:3 )

    As I see it, "born-again" is the same as regeneration ( Titus 3:5-6 ) and having a person's heart changed from rebellious / hard-hearted towards God ( Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26 ) to soft-hearted and loving towards Him.

    When I see Scripture that explicitly states that a person can become un-born-again, I'll believe it.
    So far, in all these types of discussions I've seen and been part of over the past 3 years ( not here ), I have not seen clear Scriptural support for loss of salvation.
    All I have seen are conclusions based on implication, not clear declaration.

    From what I understand of God's word,
    Christ's promises are clear and over-ride implication and conclusion based on "what-ifs":


    1) " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 )

    In this verse, I see that those who believe, have everlasting life. They possess it, and it lasts forever.
    Those who do not, shall not see everlasting life, which is to know God the Father and His Son ( John 17:3 ), but that the wrath of God rests on them.



    2) " Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    14 but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." ( John 4:13-14 )

    Here I see that whosoever drinks of the "water" ( I take this to mean, "believes the word of God from the heart" . Please see Romans 10:8-21, Ephesians 5:25-27 ) that Christ shall give him, shall never thirst, but that that "water" ( the word of God ) shall ( not "maybe" or "perhaps" ) become, in them, a well of water ( a wealth of God's word ) that springs up into everlasting life...a relationship with God and His Son that lasts forever.


    3) " Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 )

    Finally, this tells me that the person that "hears" ( spiritually, not physically ) Christ's word, and believes on the Father ( "Him that sent me" ), has ( present tense ) everlasting ( lasts forever ) life; Which is, again, to know God the Father and His Son ( John 17:3 ). They shall not come into condemnation ( be judged for their sins ), but they ARE ( present tense ) passed from death, which is spiritual ( Please see Ephesians 2:1-5, Colossians 1:13 ), to life...which is again, spiritual.


    Until I see God clearly stating that:

    A) a believer can lose the sealing of the Holy Ghost ( Ephesians 1:13-14 ),
    B) can revert from having a heart that is soft and loving towards God and His Son ( Romans 8:15, Galatians 4:3-7 ) to one that is hard and unyielding ( Romans 1:18-32, 3:10-18 ) ,
    C) can lose their inheritance in Heaven that is reserved for them ( 1 Peter 1:4 ),
    D) can overcome the power of God in keeping them ( 1 Peter 1:5 ),
    E) can overcome or remove the precious cleansing of Christ's blood ( in His Father's eyes ), that washed away all their sins on the cross for them ( Colossians 2:13-14 ), made believers suitable to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints ( Colossians 1:12 ), delivered believers from the power of darkness ( Colossians 1:13 ), redeemed them to Himself ( purchased them by His blood, see Galatians 3:13, Colossians 1:14 ),
    F) can pass from spiritual life back to spiritual death,
    G) and can close a believer's spiritual eyes that have been opened by God ( Acts of the Apostles 26:18 ) and blind them, once again, to the truth of the Gospel ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 )...

    Then I might begin to agree with it.


    So far, since the day of God's calling me into the fellowship of His saints, I have never been firmly convinced of it...and my reading of Scripture has only made agreeing with it that much more distant ( to the point of non-existent ), than it was when God first converted me.

    I see Scripture stating that those who "lose their salvation", are tares who never had it;
    They were never the wheat that Christ will pull into His garners ( barns, storehouse ) at the end of the world ( Matthew 13:24-30, explained by the Lord in Matthew 13:36-43 ).


    May God bless you sir.
     
    #12 Dave Gilbert, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that if a BAC loses their salvation that it is impossible to bring them to repentance again per Hebrews 6:6?
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    I am confused.

    Are you saying that if we sin, we loose our salvation (meaning only those who are 100% victorious over all sin can be assured of salvation) or are you saying that if we sin again, Jesus will forgive us again?

    Am I one unrepented sin away from eternal damnation?
    Is that what you are preaching?
    (That doesn’t sound like any sort of Good News to me). :(
     
  15. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    I think that he does, given the subject matter I've seen so far.
    Apologies, but I believe the OP is in moderation right now, so I jumped in due to my familiarity with the subject.:Sneaky


    In addition, I used to have trouble with that passage up until recently.
    Then I believe the Lord showed me this:

    " Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
    2 of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
    3 And this will we do, if God permit.
    4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
    7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
    8 but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.
    9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."
    ( Hebrews 6:1-9 )


    It's a "hypothetical", in that, IF it were possible to fall away for a Spirit-indwelt, elect child of the living God, then they could not be renewed again to repentance.
    Why?
    Because in order to renew one of Christ's sheep ( the wheat of His field ), to repentance, it would necessitate Him being delivered for their offenses, being crucified and Him suffering, bleeding and dying and being raised from the dead...all over again.

    This would put the Son of the living God to an open shame.:Sick



    In my opinion, it's easy to yank Hebrews 6:4-6 out of the passage and use it like a signpost, if one isn't paying attention.
    From my experience, some see the "if", and immediately think that a believer can fall away ( see Galatians 5:4, out of context ) from their gift of eternal life.

    According to Christ in John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:37-40 and John 10:27-29 ( just for starters ), they cannot.
    According to the parable of the sower, which Jesus Himself made plain to His disciples in Mark 4:10-20, only the seed which falls on the good ground brings forth fruit unto life.


    The remainder of the "seed" ( the word of God, Mark 4:14 ) falls on stony ground, etc. that does not bring forth continuing fruit.



    God bless.
     
    #15 Dave Gilbert, Oct 28, 2018
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  16. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I agree!
    Am I one speeding ticket away from hell? I habitually exceed the limit, try as hard as I might.
    Perhaps that’s exaggerating a bit.
    Samuels, how many sins do I get? How long do I get to repent?
    Exactly where is the line between what I must do to (re)gain salvation and where I fail?
    ...you see a dilemma?

    We are saved by faith in what Jesus has done for us

    ...not by works.​

    Rob
     
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  17. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    For reference, try reading Dan Corner's, The Believer's Conditional Security: Eternal Security Refuted

    I've never read it, but I've corresponded with some that have, and some that have read Scripture itself and see these things.



    Beats me how they see them, even though I understand where they get their conclusions from.
     
    #17 Dave Gilbert, Oct 28, 2018
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  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Isn't that who Christ came to save, habitual sinners?... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Now would one of you brethren be so kind as to show me a righteousness man in that statement besides Jesus Christ!
     
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The bottom line to me is that Jesus Himself told us that NONE that he ever saved will be lost again, so since He is God, I must trust Him to know!
     
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  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your assessment of the passage. It is a hypothetical question which supports the doctrine of security of the believer.
     
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