1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Was Adam perfect or did he have a weakness?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Ratings:
    +0
    I listened to some guy on MP3 today who said that both Adam and Lucifer had a weakness and God purposely created them this way. God planned everything and knew it. He knew that Lucifer would sin and that Adam would fall because if he didn't knew it and if God simply made a mistake then he isn't God. This means God knew it and planned it and Satan is almost like God's servant and he cannot do anything which God doesn't allow him to do.
    What do you think about this?
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Ratings:
    +0
    God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. Adam and Satan were not.
     
  3. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well, I think it is pretty obvious that Adam had a weakness for fruit. :laugh:

    Adam was created in perfection otherwise God would not have said it was good and He has made it abundantly clear that he conciders only perfection to be good. Now God did not create him to be omniscent, omnipresent, or omnipotent, but I would not say that is a weakness per say.
     
  4. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Ratings:
    +0
    Moreso than the fruit was Adam's weakness for his wife. His thought process seemed to be that it was better to die with her than to live without her.

    God knew that man would sin and put in place a plan to deal with that sin. I wouldn't call Satan a servant, as that implies a willingness to serve. Satan has no willingness to serve anybody.

    Yes, the first thing I completely agree on.
     
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Ratings:
    +0
    You beat me to that line. I had the same exact thought about the fruit! :thumbsup: Great minds run in the same gutter, I once heard someone say. Take it for what it's worth. :tongue3: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  6. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Ratings:
    +0
    But where do we know what God meant with "good"? Maybe God simply meant that the creation and also the way Adam was was good and suitable for his spirit to dwell in. Maybe this is what he meant.
     
  7. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Ratings:
    +0
    Did I read it wrongly, or does Scripture say, after the creation of man (male and female), that "God saw (even though He had known this from before the outset)... that it was 'very good'", whereas before that, it was only said that "God saw that it was good" or merely "and it was so"? :confused:

    Ed
     
    #7 EdSutton, Oct 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2006
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Ratings:
    +25
    Adam fell into sin - not because God made him "defective" but because in a sinless holy state he was given free will and was tempted and chose to sin.

    It really is that simple.

    Today humans are born with sinFUL natures - we are inclined to sin from birth according to Romans 3. Adam was created sinLESS - in perfect harmony with God and God's Law - as is our "New Birth" "New Creation" New nature given to us at conversion. But in our case we then have BOTH a sinFUL nature and a new-creation nature with the "Law of God written on the tablets of the human heart" Heb 8 (under the "New Covenant" promise of the ONE Gospel -- the promise that has been fulfilled to all saints in all of time starting with Adam after his fall.)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Oct 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2006
  9. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    Ratings:
    +0
    .......and God knew that, that would happen. That fact is at the heart of xd's question. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, were already in existence before creation. The mission that Jesus was given was given to Him before creation. This is that area where man must leave his brains at the door, seeking to understand only from the spiritual nature. Does his seeking fall short of an answer? Are there limits to what we are permitted to know? Could we comprehend it, even if we saw it all repeated, in 3 dimensions, on a screen that stretched across the night sky?

    Not to worry! The Good News remains the same, regardless of man's imperfect understanding of its ultimate origin.
     
  10. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Ratings:
    +0
    Adam's weakness? Fruit. Oh yeah, and women. Fruit and women.:D
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,646
    Ratings:
    +328
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Was Adam perfect or did he have a weakness?

    Not until he lost part of his support structure-- a rib.
     
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Ratings:
    +0
    Romans: 8
    "20": For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

    He was without sin but he could sin, seems to me if he was perfect he would not of been able to sin.
     
  13. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sure is. Bet he wished he could have "overs"
     
  14. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Ratings:
    +0
    But wasn't there something special about Lucifer? Lucifer was not tempted to sin like Adam was. It's not the same. Lucifer started to sin on his own! He was also sinless and perfect, right? But yet he started to sin without being tempted by an outer force! :eek::eek:

    If Lucifer could sin as a perfect being without being tempted by anyone then does this not also mean that christians could still sin in heaven? Because in heaven it'll be the same situation again.
     
  15. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Ratings:
    +0
    How are you 'defining' "perfect" here? Especially since it obviously does not mean 'not "able" to sin'?

    Ed
     
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Ratings:
    +1
    X said:
    HTML:
    If Lucifer could sin as a perfect being without being tempted by anyone then does this not also mean that christians could still sin in heaven? Because in heaven it'll be the same situation again
    .

    Lucifer sinned not because of outside temptation but because of pride.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Ratings:
    +25
    You have elected to define "perfect" as "not able" to sin. By that definition all the angels in heaven are "imperfect" even the loyal faithful ones.

    And God who makes them capable of sin - is then flawed -- by that definition.
     
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Ratings:
    +0
    agreed, I take Christ as being perfect and Adam had a flaw in that he could sin if he chose.
     
  19. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Ratings:
    +0
    Um.
    Does this mean that in heaven we will not have a free will anymore because if we had a free will it might happen that somebody starts to sin again and then the whole thing starts all over. Does this mean that in heaven we will be like robots?
    Or that God will limit our free will?
    What if God wants you to worship and you don't feel like worshipping and rather do something else? Is something like this even possible? Or will you be totally submissive in heaven?
     
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Ratings:
    +0
    All nature will be left behind so those kind of things to do or think about won't exist as tears will be wiped away also.
     
Loading...