1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Was America Founded to Be Secular?

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “Its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting the word ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it should read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

    -Thomas Jefferson, “Works of Thomas Jefferson” Vol. I, p. 40
     
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,796
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jefferson, while still Vice President, gave formal approval for Christian church services to be held in the Capital. They were held there until after the Civil War.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The House of Representatives opened with this prayer yesterday:

    "For this great assembly of leaders, Lord, we come today to ask for your guidance, wisdom, and support for our Nation.

    Help us to engage in meaningful discussions, and allow us to grow closer as our Nation's leaders and to nurture this Nation.

    Fill us with Your grace, God, as we make decisions that may affect our Nation and the world.Continue to remind us that all we do here today, all that we accomplish in our Nation, is for the pursuit of freedom, for Your greater glory, and for the service of humanity.

    We ask all these things in Your name. Amen"

    At least we have a Christian government. :Cautious
     
  4. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Minor detail: When did the ending of a prayer become "in thy name" instead of "in Jesus' name?

    Is there a connection between "in thy name" and GATOU, the god of the Masonic Lodge?

    Interesting midnight surfing.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Great Architect of the Universe". To read Jefferson, there was at least a desistic rather than atheistic expectation.

    Although Jefferson used Jesus' name, he did deny the resurrection of Christ (he was not a Christian).
     
  6. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Check the rest of the story: there is a lot of conjecture about who authored George Washington's prayer book.

    See further: A Basic Chronology of George Washington's Life and Documented Masonic Activities, gwmemorial.org/pages/George-Washington-the-mason

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,796
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Was Jefferson saved? No. He was a practicing Christian. By that, I mean that he publicly went through the motions of being a Christian. He regularly attended Church. He embraced Christian morals and values. He even authorized public monies to train Christian pastors and advance the spread of the Gospel. He definitely did not separate Church from state. He did keep state out of church. Problem is that many years later, the court totally bastardized one statement in his Danbury letter and built false law upon it.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that we sometimes do not make enough of a distinction between America as a Christian nation (based on faith in Christ) and America as a nation founded upon Christian principles.
     
  9. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are still in a nominal Christian quagmire. I is no wonder, Satan himself is become an angel of light.

    We have been headed into the pit of ecumenism for over 250 years.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are called Christian. Now what?
    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The only time I eve see or hear of anyone referring to this country as a Christian nation is when people criticize such an idea. I always hear it referred to as being founded on biblical principles. Where are these people who refer to the US as being a Christian nation?
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I only have a few minutes (I'm an op.mgr. for a HVAC company and it's really hot here) but this might help:

    “These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.” (statement from Supreme Court decision Feb 1872)

    Supreme Court Declares America a Christian Nation

    https://www.amazon.com/United-States-Christian-Nation/dp/0692752609

    https://www.lc.org/Uploads/files/pdf/flyer_founding_fathers_disagree_obama.pdf

    Proof That America Was Founded As A Christian Nation – International Cops for Christ

    Yep, America is a Christian nation

    The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation - here's more proof

    Here’s proof founders created Christian nation

    The Christian Nation Debate and the U.S. Supreme Court

    http://www.alfchurch.org/god-bless-america-again-proof-that-america-was-is-a-christian-nation/

    Creationist radio host: Bacon proves that America is a Christian nation
     
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,796
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Supreme Court ruled in February 1892 that the U.S.A. "is a Christian nation."
     
  13. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The basic issue is that there is a bible definition of Christian and a worldly ecumenical definition of Christian. Many do not see the difference. Many seem apathetic. We need to restate what the word Christian means.

    "The disciples were called Christian first at Antioch." See Acts 11:19-26. The real Christians were also known as The Way. Christian was a term of derision, a lot like Anabaptist.

    Where were the Baptists in the founding of the U.S. of A? There are records which indicate some were arrested and punished for preaching the Gospel--without a license as it were.

    Freedom of religion/conscience is a Baptist distinctive. Anglicans were in the majority. We almost had state religion. God intervened there for sure.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    None of this is relevant to the op. Trying to decipher who was a real christian according to Bro. James does not determine whether or not this country was founded on biblical principles.
     
  15. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Let us filter this discussion through the paradigm of John 14:6. Preaching such scripture will get you arrested, stoned, beheaded and several more not so pleasant adventures. Did not Jesus say what the world did to Him it will do to us?(disciples--followers--learners) Secularists do not have these problems.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  16. Cinnamon Apples

    Cinnamon Apples New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    "E pluribus unum" appeared on the great seal of the United States and our currency as of 1782. Well prior to "In God We Trust", on American currency. Which was embossed with that slogan in 1956.

    The Constitution is a contract designed to protect the people from the government. And our individual and national rights and freedoms.
    Yes, America was founded as a secular nation. And for good reason. Because the freedoms for all people, moral and religious, were assured in that aforementioned contract.
    Something that the history of England did not afford its people. And something I believe the forefathers who hailed from there were not only aware of, but were resolute that the travesty of that history not repeat itself in a new free land.
     
Loading...