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Featured Was it Friday?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Mar 20, 2024.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

    The Jewish Preparation Day begins Thursday evening at sundown, and ends on the Sabbath Friday evening at sundown.
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Sounds like it'd be Thursday evening (like Passover ... the sender meal...being on the 15th which we would consider the evening of the 14th).
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    For the month and year the 14th and 15th will be different week days. But the 7th day Sabbth Preparation Day would always be our Thursday evening ending ending Friday evening at the start of the Sabbath.

    In 33 A.D. the 14th began on the Thursday evenning ending on Friday evenning start of the 15th and 7th day Sabbath. So per Mark 14:12-17 would caused a Sabbath day crucifixion, which of course did not happen. Mark 15:42.
     
    #3 37818, Mar 20, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2024
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Or

    Thursday evening would be the meal and arrest. Friday morning (He was delivered to Pilot in the morning) He was accused and handed over to be crucified, and taken by Roman soldiers to be killed. Preparation and burial was immediately aftwards to have accomplished prior to the Sabbath. The Resurrection would be on the 3rd day, and having been in the grave 3 days.

    The "pro", I guess, with this position is Scripture would remain accurate. An interesting factor to this position is also the parallel between Jesus, the Passover, and the Sabbath.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    30 A.D. Mark 14:12. Exodus 12:18.
    Tuesday sunset, Wedensday day
    Mark 14:17, the 15th
    Wedensday sunset, Thursday day.
    Mark 15:42, the 16th
    Thursday sunset, Friday day.
    Sabbath day, the 17th
    Friday sunset, Saturday.
    First day of the week, 18th
    Saturday sunset, Sunday day, Luke 24:21.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    There hasn't been a comprehensive rendering of John 19:32 ever taken under consideration, yet. What's up!?


    In the event that the Bible is saying that there were two different sabbath days that week, then there would also be two different preparation days.

    They would consider and be reconcilable to:
    However, the sabbath day spoken of in John 19:31 can not be equal to, or reconciled as being the weekly sabbath, as in these two following quotes.

    The weekly sabbath is not the one of the two Sabbath's the Jews observed during that same week that is specified in John 19:31.

    John 19:31 is talking about another sabbath day during that same week that was not the weekly Saturday Sabbath.

    And that Sabbath in John 19:31 has remained interpreted, as if it is in the Bible for nothing(?)

    There is the reality that you have remained entirely adverse to it, however again:

    John 19:31 is talking about another sabbath day during that same week that was not the weekly Saturday Sabbath.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No, it is the weekly Sabbath of the 17th of Nisan.
    Mark 15:42 and John 19:31 are the parallel verses along with Matthew and Luke verses.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Interesting (perhaos not important, but interesting) topic.

    Looks like 33 AD was chosen based on posdible dates that would allow for a Friday crucifixion.

    The choices were April 11, 27 AD, April 7, 30 AD, and April 3, 33 AD.

    27 AD is often dismissed as too early.

    The majority of scholars settle on April 7, 30 AD.

    Would not looking for a Friday change anything?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The second choice of two.
    The mystery is how and when Thursday got changed to the Friday for 30 A.D.?

    R. A. Torrey in his book "Difficulties in the Bible" presented a Wednesday crucifixion. So for me, was the crucifixion Friday or Wednesday? A number of issues proved it was Thursday.

    I presumed it could be discovered from Scripture.

    Jewish days begin with sunset. Based on Exodus 12:18 Mark 14:12-16 turn out to be the 14th of Nisan. And based on math and science and known rules for the Jewish Calendar 30 A.D. Nisan 14th was Wednesday not Friday. But Mark 14:17 a Wednesday evening would be the beginning of the next day, the 15th. A Thursday! I latter discovered a Palm Friday. And Luke 24:21 would make a Wednesday crucifixion not possible according to Scripture.
     
    #9 37818, Mar 20, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2024
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says no such thing.
    Not even true.
    No such Scripture.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You say so without Biblical bases.
    John 19:31, The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

    It was the same preparation day in both passages.

    @Alan Gross you are making claims without Biblical foundation.

    According to Exodus 12:18
    there are 8 days, the 14th through the 21st governing the ,7 days of the feast, and unleavened bread. The weekly Sabbath will occur once during those 8 days.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even,
    ye shall eat unleavened bread,
    until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."


    Correct.

    Mark 14:12; "And the first day of unleavened bread,
    when they killed the passover,

    His disciples said unto Him,
    Where wilt thou that we go and prepare
    that Thou mayest eat the passover?"


    This question was asked by the disciples, between,
    Tuesday up to 3 hours before 6:pm, per Josephus,
    and the beginning of Wednesday, in the late afternoon, after 6:00 pm,


    which was before Wednesday evening, below in Mark 14:17,

    (followed by Wednesday night,
    with Wednesday day, beginning the next morning.)


    Mark 14:17,
    "And in the evening He cometh with the twelve."

    is also: Tuesday long after the beginning of Wednesday at 6:00 pm,
    into the evening hours, around 8:00 or 9:000 pm, "in the evening",

    (before Wednesday night,
    which was followed by Wednesday day, beginning the next morning.)

    Exodus 12:18; "In the first month,
    on the fourteenth day of the month at even,
    ye shall eat unleavened bread,
    until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."


    Here we see in;

    Exodus 12:18; "In the first month," = Nison,
    "on the fourteenth day of the month" = Nison 14,

    "at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread"

    And it was "at even" when Jesus came with the twelve,

    in Mark 14:17,

    "And in the evening He cometh with the twelve."

    (Ref: Mark 14:12c; "that Thou mayest eat the Passover")

    In context, then, we see in Mark 4:16-18, it was, "in the evening",
    when Jesus came with the twelve to eat the Passover;


    Mark 14:16; "And His disciples went forth,
    and came into the city, and found as He had said unto them:
    and they made ready the Passover."

    17; "And in the evening He cometh with the twelve."

    18; " And as they sat and did eat,..."

    Jesus ate the Passover,
    long after the beginning of Wednesday at 6:00 pm, and
    into the evening hours, around 8:00 or 9:00 pm, i.e., "in the evening",

    which according to;
    Exodus 12:18, was; "In the first month," = Nison,
    "on the fourteenth day of the month" = Nison 14

    Jesus ate the Passover, Wednesday, Nison 14,
    "in the evening" hours, around 8:00 or 9:00 pm,

    (before Wednesday night,
    which was followed by Wednesday day, beginning the next morning.)

    Correct.

    (So, we have already placed Mark 14:17, above, on Nison 14
    and then we will skip this thought of Mark 14:17, here;
    "And in the evening He cometh with the twelve,"
    as being on the 15th.

    Next, we have to follow through with our day,
    after Jesus ate the Passover, Wednesday, Nison 14,
    "in the evening" hours, around 8:00 or 9:00 pm,

    In Mark 4:18 ff, Jesus, of course, predicted His betrayal,

    Then in Mark 4:32; "they came to a place
    which was named Gethsemane:
    and He saith to His disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray."


    AND THEN STILL DURING THAT WEDNESDAY NIGHT, of NISON 14,
    Jesus was betrayed by Judas in Gethsemane,

    in Mark 4:43; "And immediately, while He yet spake, cometh Judas,
    one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude
    with swords and staves, from the chief priests
    and the scribes and the elders.


    44; "And he that betrayed Him had given them a token,
    saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is He;
    take Him, and lead Him away safely.


    45; "And as soon as he was come,
    he goeth straightway to Him,
    and saith, Master, master; and kissed Him.

    46; "And they laid their hands on Him, and took Him."

    JESUS WAS THEN LED AWAY TO HIS FIRST MOCK TRIAL
    DURING THAT NIGHT of WEDNESDAY, NISON 14;

    in Mark 4:53;
    "And they led Jesus away to the high priest:
    and with him were assembled all the chief priests
    and the elders and the scribes."

    THEN, beginning in chapter 5,
    it is the morning of Wednesday, Nison 14,
    and in Mark 5:15, Jesus was delivered to Pilate;

    "And straightway in the morning
    the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes
    and the whole council, and bound Jesus,
    and carried Him away, and delivered Him to Pilate,"

    after which, Jesus was crucified, the third hour
    early in the day of Wednesday morning, Nison 14;
    in Mark 5:25;
    "And it was the third hour, and they crucified Him."

    con't.
     
    #12 Alan Gross, Mar 21, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    John 19:31; "The Jews therefore,
    because it was the preparation,

    that the bodies should not remain upon the cross
    on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)

    besought Pilate that their legs might be broken,
    and that they might be taken away."

    From Wikipedia: High Sabbaths.

    "High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage,
    are Seven Annual Biblical Festivals and Rest Days,
    recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.[1][2][3]

    "This is an extension of the term
    "high day"
    found in the King James Version at John 19:31.


    "Biblical Rest Days"


    "The Seven Festivals do not necessarily occur
    on weekly
    Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath)
    and are called by the name
    miqra ("called assembly")
    in Hebrew (
    Lev. 23).

    "They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians.

    "
    Two of the Shabbath (Holy Assemblies) occur in Spring
    on The First and Last Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread
    (Matzot).

    "One occurs in the Summer, this is the Feast of Weeks (
    Shavuot).

    "And four occur in the Fall in the Seventh Month.


    "Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah)
    on the First Day of the Seventh Month;
    the Second is the Day of Atonement (
    Yom Kippur);

    and two during the Feast of Tabernacles (
    Sukkot)
    on the First and Last Day.

    "Sometimes the word
    shabbaton is extended
    to mean all Seven Festivals.
    [4]


    The Gospel of John

    refers to that Sabbath Day (Thursday)
    that was the day after Christ's death, (Wednesday)
    by saying, "that sabbath day" (Thursday)
    "was a high day"
    (19:31–42).


    "That night was (Thursday) Nisan 15,
    just after The First Day of Passover Week (Unleavened Bread)
    (Wednesday, Nison 14, as we have seen)
    and an Annual Miqra and Rest Day...


    "The King James Version may thus be the origin

    of naming The Annual Rest Days, "High Sabbaths" in English.
    ...

    con't.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    "High Sabbath = Annual Sabbath = Feast Sabbath = Feast."


    "In addition to the ordinary or "normal" weekly Sabbaths,


    God also determined 7 more "Special" Days of Rest in the Year,
    which He also called
    "days of rest", i.e. "Sabbaths".


    "Since these Seven Annual Sabbaths are Special Holidays,
    they are also called "High Sabbaths," "Feast Sabbaths,"
    "Holiest Sabbaths," "Great Sabbaths,"
    or "Most Holy Sabbaths"

    (literally: σαββατα σαββατων = Sabbaths of the Sabbaths;

    Lev 16:31; 23:32).

    "The rules of not working were kept especially strict on these days.

    "If the weekly Sabbaths were to be observed,

    how much more so were The Annual Sabbaths,
    which are also "days of God"

    (Lev 26:2; Isa 56:4; Jer 20:12-24; 22:8,26; 23:38; 44:24).

    "The Seven Biblical High Sabbaths (Feast Days)
    are exactly enumerated in Lev 16; Lev 23 and Num 28-29.

    "As the weekly Sabbaths begin and end,

    so do Annual Sabbaths: "beginning at evening,
    from evening to evening shall you keep your Sabbath"

    (Lev 23:32),
    that means after sunset.


    "The First Two High Sabbaths take place
    in the very First Month of the Year,
    which is called "Abib" (month of ears of grain) or "Nisan"
    .


    "Three times a year the people should gather with God,
    namely in Spring, Summer, and Autumn.

    "There are therefore
    Two Annual Sabbaths in Spring (1st month Nisan),

    One in Summer (3rd month Sivan)
    and Four Annual Sabbaths in Autumn (7th month Tishrei):

    "1. 1st month Nisan, 15th day: Passover 1,
    First Day of Unleavened Bread (Pesach 1).

    (by the time of The New Testament, Nison 14 was also considered
    as part of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and called "The First Day".


    "2. 1st month Nisan, 21st day: Passover 7,
    Last Day of Unleavened Bread (Pesach 7)...", etc.




    So, when we see "the preparation day" in Mark 5:42,
    it is referring to
    "the preparation day", Wednesday, Nison 14,

    WHICH IS "the preparation day", the day before, "the sabbath day,
    (for that sabbath day was an high day,)" of John 19:31,
    which was The Annual High Day,
    which fell on Thursday, Nison 15, here:


    42; "And now when the even was come,

    because it was the preparation,
    that is, the day before the sabbath,"


    so, that is where we need to see Mark 5:42, as:

    "And now when the even was come,
    because it was the preparation," Wednesday, Nison 14,
    "that is, the day before the sabbath," from Mark 5:42,

    (for that sabbath day was an high day,)" from John 19:31,
    which was The Annual High Day Sabbath,
    which fell on Thursday, Nison 15.

    There is the reality that you have remained entirely averse to,
    however again:

    John 19:31 is talking about another Sabbath Day,
    as we read there: "the sabbath day,
    (for that sabbath day was an high day,)", in John 19:31,

    which was an Annual Sabbath High Day,
    that fell on Thursday, Nison 15,

    during that same week that was not the weekly Saturday Sabbath.

    The preparation day for that Annual High Day Sabbath
    was Wednesday, Nison 14, The Day Jesus was Crucified.
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    ht
    @Alan Gross,
    Your post here proves you do not understand.
    You fail to understand that John 19:31 and Mark 15:42 both refer to the 7th day Sabbath. Hearing you hear not.
    In 30 A.D. the 14th of Nisan was from Tuesday sunset to the end of the day of Wednsday. The 15th of Nisan was from Wedensday at sunset to the end of the day of Thursday. The Preperation day in John 19:31 and Mark 15:42 was from Thursday at sunset to the end of the day of Friday. The High Day Sabbath was from Friday at sunset to the end of the day Saturday. The first day of the week, the 18th of Nisan, began Saturday at Sunset. And that day Sunday was the third day per Luke 24:20-21.
     
    #15 37818, Mar 21, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Probably because Scripture records Jesus' death and burial as occurring "the day before the Sabbath". If they read and accepted that O can see how they took it as Friday rather than Thurdsay evening ("evening had come" and "it was the day before the Sabbath").
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That became the major misinterpertation.
    And Biblically that is not actually the case.

    Since Christ died on the 15th of Nisan, Joseph of Arimathaea, being a devout Jew, had to wait to the end of the holy convocation before he could ask for Jesus' body.

    Mark 15:42, . . And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

    Being the beginning of the 16th.

    Luke 23:55-56, . . . And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

    Matthew 27:62, . . . Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, . . .
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You messed up right there. You know it?

    Never mind, though, because everything you've ever said the last 15 or 20 times
    that I tried to point out the Bible to you, for the purpose of reading it,
    your approach to the whole Crucifixion Week Narrative HAS ALWAYS BEEN:

    TO START with A SUMMARY JUDGEMENT AND AN IRON GLAD DETERMINATION
    THAT JESUS WAS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIFIED ON FRIDAY AND GOING FROM THERE
    AND JUST SKIPPING OVER ANY NUMBER OF SCRIPTURES, COMMENTS,
    QUESTIONS, OR CONTRADICTIONS INVOLVING A CONTRARIETY OF OPINION
    TO JESUS DYING ON FRIDAY, AS IF THEY WERE ALL AN ILLUSION.

    That's it. It's over. Just like that. Before it begins. And nothing really matters,
    except a teaching of men that doesn't say much for Jesus Christ being Honest,
    THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRYING TO FORCE JESUS INTO BEING A LIAR, SAYING:
    "JESUS WAS NOT IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS."


    Nevertheless, here are some "SCRIPTURES, COMMENTS, QUESTIONS,
    OR CONTRADICTIONS INVOLVING A CONTRARIETY OF OPINION
    TO JESUS DYING ON FRIDAY,
    FOR YOU TO SKIP OVER AS IF THEY WERE ALL AN ILLUSION",

    with regard to what you are saying here, where you messed up so badly:
    On Wednesday, Nison 14, was "The Lord's Passover",
    which was the Day, "Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed",

    (as well as also being The Preparation Day,
    for The ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY, on Thursday, Nison 15.)



    Numbers 28:16; "On the 14th day of the first month is the Lord's Passover,"

    1 Corinthians 5:7; "For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed."


    The Jews were not allowed to go into the Praetorium,
    "the 14th of Nisan...
    from Tuesday sunset to the end of the day of Wednsday"
    , AS YOU SAID.

    On this Special Preparation Day of the 14th of Nisan, "the Lord's Passover,"

    the Passover lamb was killed every year,
    so the Jews were not allowed to go into the Praetorium.


    John 18:28; "Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas
    to the governor's headquarters.
    It was early morning.
    They themselves did not enter the governor's headquarters,

    so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover [pascha].

    29; "So Pilate went outside..."


    Exodus 12:5; "Your lamb shall be without blemish..."

    6; "and you shall keep it until the 14th day of this month,
    when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel
    shall kill their lambs at twilight"

    [literally: between the two evenings].


    Numbers 28:16; "On the 14th day of the first month is the Lord's Passover,"

    1 Corinthians 5:7; "For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed".

    Then, the next day, after "The Lord's Passover", Nison 14,
    the Day Jesus was Crucified,
    when,
    "Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed",

    is when you said;

    "The 15th of Nisan
    was from Wedensday at sunset to the end of the day of Thursday,"


    and Nison 15, is The First Day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread.

    Numbers 28:17; "and on the 15th day of this month is a feast.
    Seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten".

    AND?, AS WE HAVE SAID, 15 OR 20 TIMES;

    this Nison 15, is The First Day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread
    and One of the Seven Biblical ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY Rest Days.


    They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians.

    Two of the Seven Biblical ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY Rest Days,
    or shabbath (Holy Assemblies) occur in Spring
    on the First and Last Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Matzot).

    THAT HAS YOU AND THE BIBLE
    BOTH MAKING WEDNESDAY NISON 14;

    A PREPARATION DAY, FOR THE ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY Rest Day, (Nison 15),
    on "THE LORD'S PASSOVER", THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED,

    AND YOU AND THE BIBLE
    BOTH MAKE THE NEXT DAY, THURSDAY, NISON 15;
    "(for that sabbath day was an high day,)"
    which was the First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Matzot),
    THE ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY Rest Day, as mentioned in John 19:31;

    "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,
    that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day,
    (for that sabbath day was an high day,)

    besought Pilate that their legs might be broken,
    and that they might be taken away."

    So, YOU AND THE BIBLE, now have, Jesus Crucified on Wednesday, Nison 14,
    "The Lord's Passover", when, "Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed",

    which was also, The Preparation Day for The Sabbath High Day, on Thursday,
    as shown in the chart, below;

    AND YOU AND THE BIBLE, now have,
    THE NEXT DAY, THURSDAY, NISON 15,
    "(for that sabbath day was an high day,)"
    which was the First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Matzot),
    AS BEING THE ANNUAL SABBATH HIGH DAY Rest Day, as mentioned in John 19:31;

    "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,

    that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day,
    (for that sabbath day was an high day)."

    [​IMG]


    I don't know what to tell you.

    I told you that you messed up, there.

    However, you don't care the least little bit and it doesn't matter to you one wit.

    HAPPY DAYS. GLORY!
     
    #18 Alan Gross, Mar 21, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    False. Jesus was not crucified during Mark 14:12-16, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us. And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

    Mark 14:17, And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

    Being the 15th of Nisan.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 12:18, In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

    8 days are listed.
    Unleaved bread 7 days.
    14 evening and day.
    15 evening and day.
    16 evening and day.
    17 evening and day.
    18 evening and day.
    19 evening and day.
    20 evening and day.
    Those are the 7 days ending on
    21 at evening.
    So the feast itself only has 6 days of the 7 unlevened bread days.
    15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20.
    Deuteronomy 16:8, Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

    The 21st,
     
    #20 37818, Mar 21, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2024
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