Was Jesus human like us or a different kind of human?

What does dividing God into parts (which I don't do) have to do with omniscience?

 

As far as I know there is only one kenosis theory. But it makes Jesus less than God. Because God is his attributes.

 

Jesus is God. As the eternal Son he did not know the time of the end. But you can only say he was not omniscient if you divide God into parts. God, in all that he is, is omniscient.

 

We solve the riddle if we realize we are body, soul = (carnal mind/wicked flesh) and spirit. Jesus is body, soul = (perfect mind/ perfect flesh) and God (Spirit).

It is easy to see how he views things as a human being, but also as God. Depending on his mission.

 

I think I know what you are saying, but part of the emptying of Christ is that he set aside the powerful attributes of God and became a man. He was still God in His character, but his abilities (on His own) were limited to what a man could do with God's power supporting Him. He clearly stated that He could do nothing by Himself (John 5:19, 30) and only acted on the initiative of the Father (John 5:30-32; 8:28). If you look carefully at the spiritual gifts poured out upon the church at and after Pentecost, they are essentially given to continue the work of Jesus, acting in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus supernaturally knew certain things because the Father told the God/man Jesus those things. That is how he could, for instance, know the thoughts of others or heal from a distance and know that it was done, because He was in touch with the Father and the Spirit. That's also why He might not know other things, such as the date of His eventual return and who in the crowd had touched Him.

Yes, but Jesus was constrained according to the will and purpose of God to be confined to the limits of humanity.

 

A better way for us moderns to think about the body of Jesus is that His spirit and body were not corrupted by sin. His body could be wounded, was often tired and hungry, and he also had the same biological functions as each of us. It is likely His skin also endured sun damage and His hands a feet were calloused. Moreover, He had to learn to talk, walk and use His body to do things. He had to learn, grow in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and humankind. He certainly didn't come dancing out of the womb ready to start His ministry.

 

As you can see from Chafer's quote I provided, he did not see the Kenosis as denying Christ's full deity.

the "kenosis" is derived from Philippians 2:7 from the RSV word "emptied" Himself - (KJV phrase - Made Himself of no reputation).

kenosis - from the root κενόω (kenoo - to empty) ἐκένωσεν in the text. also UBS 03466 - to lay aside.

so, IMO the Kenosis "theory" crosses the boundary of pure linguistics into an area of subjectivity.

I like the analogy of lowering in rank but not in essential being.
A general lowered in rank to a private still remains a man.

 

Rather than "riddle" Dave I would prefer the word "mystery" - unrevealed - probably because the full implication of the Kenosis is beyond our present comprehension.

 

The "kenosis" is pure fabrication. God Cannot Change. Because he is perfect, and any change would be to imperfection.

 

God cannot compromise a single attribute and remain to be God. But Jesus did mask his glory taking on human flesh. Just as he masks his glory hiding himself from sinners. But he is fully God doing this. Not watered down.

 

The Cross was already a done thing, as the Father predestined it to come to pass, and so would come to pass!

 

Also, your poll is not right though, as the questions should be really did Jesus have a sin nature like we all have from birth, or did He not?
I hold that Jesus was fully human, but was not corrupted by the fall as we all were, hence no sin nature!

 

Was the incarnate Jesus OMNIPRESENT?
It would seem He 'emptied' Himself of that attribute when he entered Time-space as a man.

 

While here upon the earth, jesus healed, walked on water, so still was fully God!he just laid aside for a time the right to exercise all of His powers, not that he no longer actually had them!

 

God's character cannot change, but God is living and can do whatever He wants to do. If you say that God cannot change, you are actually saying that God cannot act. He cannot make covenants with humankind, He cannot wait until a certain moment or situation and then treat a person or persons in a new way, in light of changed circumstances.

You are holding a very particular set of ideas from Greek philosophy that are quite unhelpful in talking about the God reveal in scripture. You have assigned a moral value to "perfection" and therefore cannot conceive of change in God because that would mean He was previously immoral or will be immoral.

You are defining God as a series of attributes, not as a Person. That's quite insulting to God. It is a belittling of the Person from whom everyone else derives their personhood.

To use a very crude illustration, if you were to set aside the ability to write with a pen and paper in favor of typing with a keyboard because many people had trouble interpreting your writing, does that change who you are? No. It simply means you are writing in a different way, potentially more suitable for your purposes of communication. But if I suddenly protested, "Wait, Dave can't easily draw little doodles at the sides of the pages with a simple keyboard. Therefore you are not Dave anymore." You would rightly think I was a fool. Of course you could draw doodles after you had finished working within the limitations of the keyboard. You had not lost that ability, but had set it aside for a while to communicate another way so that people could more easily understand you.

His glory was masked and His abilities (what you call attributes) were severely restricted to what a man could do. That does not mean that He was not God, but that He was simply using a different way to communicate. He came as one of us, except He was, and continued to be, without sin.

It is very clear that you think God's power/abilities makes God divine, not His Person/Nature or character.

 

Jesus was still just as much God as he was before the Incarnation, correct?

 

While God had preordained the execution of Jesus to some degree, we must be careful not to take the crucifixion, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ out of space and time. It happened nearly 2,000 years ago and we have the testimony of the witnesses to these things.

 

Yes.

 

Yes, but that's not how we know He was divine. Peter walked on water for a short time, he was not divine. The Twelve, and then later, the Seventy disciples all healed people and cast out demons, and they were not divine. A number of other people in the New Testament also engaged in works of power by the Holy Spirit, and they were not divine.

Actually, I am convinced that He did not have the power in Himself to do those things. He did them by working in coordination with the Father and the Spirit.

I posted scripture references in an earlier post, but I am discovering that people apparently don't actually look up the scriptures that I post. The Gospel of John records some very revealing things about how Jesus did His works of power. Nothing these verses and then go back and study them in context so you can see what I'm talking about:

John 5:19
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 5:30
“I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me."

I could give you more examples, but I think this makes the point.

 

What I was saying is that the God who ordains history would ahve already made sure that the death of jesus and His resurrection was to Him already a "done deal", that was worked out in real history for us!