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Waterboarding was a war crime in WW2. What's changed?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by JustChristian, May 4, 2009.

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  1. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    Please do not misrepresent me. I never said anything remotely like this.
     
  2. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    You are right. The Christian is called to participate in putting an end to the "violence begets more violence" cycle. When a Christians accepts the necessity to waterboard, they are effectively buying into the world's way of doing business - the use of power and coercion to achieve ends. This is not the gospel way.
     
  3. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    The evidence suggests otherwise. In 2005, there were only 50 gun homicides in all the United Kingdom - about 60 milliom people, I think. If it were really true that gun control means that criminals will still get guns, you would see a much higher number than this. After all, there is a lot of crime in the UK and a criminal would be motivated to use a gun (it is an effective weapon).
     
  4. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    According to John McCain's statement which I posted, yes we have done that in violation of international law.
     
  5. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    So you don't agree with McCain's statement that we have tortured prisoners acting against the Geneva convention and other international treaties? You're the expert not the Republican Senator who himself was tortured?
     
  6. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    Indeed, being "fiercer" than your enemy may indeed help win a war.

    But it is certainly not a behaviour that Jesus would endorse. And dropping a nuke on Japan almost certainly did not "cure" them in the sense I think you mean.

    Do you really think that the relatives of the civilians killed at Hiroshima were "cured" of any imperialist aggressiveness by this act of mass slaughter (whether justifiable or not)? I think that human history shows that violence generally begets more violence. Obviously, we all know that Japan has not undertaken a warlike stance since 1945, but that probably has little to do with the atomic bomb and more to do with other things.

    Using the tools of violent power are not the way that Jesus would have us go. There may be situations where there is no choice. But it is not the gospel way to think in terms of "what will most effective at winning", it is to think in term of what is most loving.
     
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    The most loving thing to do would be just to lie down and bare our throats and smile so they can saw our heads off. After all, we're going to heaven anyway.

    I hate to break this to you libbies, but you can "love" somebody right into eternal hell.

    This thread not only is ridiculous but borders on insane.
     
    #67 LadyEagle, May 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
  8. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    It borders on insane that your country has committed atrocities that we tried the Japanese for after WW2? That this was torture was confirmed by John McCain? You really don't care what we do in the name of the republican party do you?
     
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Wow, this kind of shows a pretty pronounced lack of understanding of the factors behind the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Perhaps a cursory review of WWII history would help.
     
  10. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    No one is saying that we simply "lay down". You cannot simply assume that rejection of torture invites such things. In fact, I tend to think that every time the world hears of Americans "torturing" people (whether or not waterboarding is technically torture), those looking for moral justification for acts of terror find exactly what they want.

    It is not constructive to frame things in terms of rhetorical characterizations of groups, such as a reference to "those libbies". Intentionally or not, you are appealing to tribalism - setting up the "libbies" as a goofy, muddle-headed, or perhaps downright evil "them" that is set against an "us" that are the holders of truth.

    I agree, but probably for entirely different reasons.
     
  11. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    By all means, expound. Since you have this understanding (apparently) please set me (and perhaps others) straight on this matter.
     
  12. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Well, since you seem to be unaware of the reasons Truman OK'd the bombs...you seem to think that there was another way to defeat the Japanese, that wouldn't involve the deaths of hundreds of thousands of US servicemen.

    By all means, share the alternatives...
     
  13. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    There can be no reasonable discussion on any of this until there is at least some agreement as to what constitutes torture. You say waterboarding is torture. I say it is not. I don't give a hang what John McCain thinks, he is not a conservative and his pick for runner is why Republicans lost the election. I am neither Republican or Democrat, so your assertion about me not caring is totally false and another one of your famous jumps to conclusions of which you know nothing about.

    It has already been explained to you maybe as early as page 1 about the WW2 thing. Obviously, you refuse to accept facts that disagree with your preconceived liberal notions. Perhaps you can get John McCain to come over to the Democratic side of the aisle, because as far as I am concerned, he is just another RINO like whats his face who finally came clean last week and joined Democratic ranks.


    Let's get real, people. Let's talk about the REAL war crimes of WW2. Waterboarding is nothing compared to the real tortures committed.

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

    Like I said, this thread is ridiculous and borders on insanity.
     
    #74 LadyEagle, May 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2009
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Again, a reality check:

    http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/truth/genocide.shtml

    And some here equate waterboarding with torture. Incredible.
     
  16. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    People can say, cry and whine all day long that waterboarding is not torture, but they are wrong. It is torture and is against international law.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#International_law
     
  17. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    I'm no expert but I can read. Go to Berkley's War Crimes Archive and read. It is dry, unemotional and free of hyperbole. Just the facts. The description of torturous acts committed in WWII are much different than the the CIA's description of waterboarding techniques.

    Five times. I'm sure it has caused psychological distress for Shaik Mohammed.

    Apparently, in some views, their distress is inconsequential.
     
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    You'd better get busy making the US bring its definitions of torture in line with yours.

    Right now, you're all wet. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  19. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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