We need more Arminians...

Yup, the quickening ray (the light of Christ, bound in truth, love and promise) which God diffusely, and with meaningful purpose, puts out into all the world. He speaks of being filled with that light (Luke 11:34-36),.... IOW's "he" woke, "his" chains fell off, "his" heart was "free" (no longer giving way to sin, but to truth) and "he" rose, went forth and followed it; but this should serve as a good example of how Calvinists arrive to their interpretations through tainted glasses as they proceed to read predestination into Charles Wesley’s poetry and try to start convincing themselves that he (Charles Wesley) was projecting their views.

 

And that was the goal of both John Calvin and John Wesley

Wesley said that, regarding justification, he did not differ from Calvin by the breadth of a hair

Both men would regard someone who professed Christian faith but later fell away as lost. The difference is that Calvin would say that that faith was not a true faith in the first instance, whereas Wesley would accept that it was a true faith from which that man fell. For both men, the end result is not in dispute, it is just how they would characterize that man's beginning.

 

More on this theme from Charles Wesley:

"Hail the Heaven-born Prince of Peace !
Hail the Sun of Righteousness !
Light and Life to All he brings,
Ris'n with Healing in his Wings."

 

I made no effort to read Calvinism into the hymn. I find it to be Biblical. I sing songs written by non-Cals all the time.

As a choir director and song leader I am careful to ensure that text of the music I use meet the test of scriptural truth.

And Can It Be meets the test.

 

Right on. The difference is primarily in definitions, terminology, and a play on words. It is mostly the different definitions and terminology that are debated on here.

 

Shodan,

if you know someone who could lose the faith he has...encourage him to lose it as soon as possible.....and then pray for Jesus to really save him...

Jesus seeks and saves....and once saved we are kept by the power of God.

 

Amen Iconoclast.

John 10:26

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.​

HankD

 

yes, as the meanings that we invest into the biblcal terms are greatly different betwenn Cal and arm/non cal, and we have to understand each others terminology before even attempting to discuss the Bible passages in question!

 

I believe that if you are a biblical Christian then you will see that all the other sects and groups will have something wrong with them.

Take Calvinism for instance: They take the Gospel Message that man can freely choose by faith, Christ as their saviour and turn it into a message of doom. All people can't come to Christ but a selective few that God chooses before they were born.

The problem with that is God punishes people for not believing in his son, when it is he that in fact prevents them from believing.

 

God has decide that all who have not be saved by his Son, atoned by his death, will receive their due punishment...

God does NOT prevent them from getting saved, as He permits them to freely do what they decided, its just due to being sinners, cannot freely chose Christ![/quote]