Welfare drug tests

[freeatlast]

Just saw this today - but it seems it took effect 1 Jul 2011

Florida will require welfare receipients to take drug test.

Good, Bad or indifferent

Is it consititional

Is it the right thing to do

Well I see nothing wrong with it except it is a joke. They can still get the benefits if they fail the test by designating someone else to receive the benefits in their name.

 

[DiamondLady]

Nope . . . sorry Salty my mistake I should have wrote this in a third grade format instead of a sixth grade format so y'all could grasp it easier. Let me give it another try, okay?

Because the government by not performing it's constitutional duties has set up the situtation whereby you must either sign away your God given (fourth and fifth amendment) rights (against warrantless searches and self incrimination) or go hungry, cold and homeless bow bow bow.

In other words if you want to eat again, or remain employed, or simply wish to be considered a "good citizen" in this day and Orwellian age then you have to sign this contract that voids and nullifies any and all rights (that the company, corporation or government specifies) you were granted by your creator on the condition of being born a human being on planet earth.

There is no right God given or otherwise to collect welfare. QUOTE]


I think the key word here is warrantless. These tests are not warrantless. According to the Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, more than 1 in 4 mothers on welfare are addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Secondly, the fourth an fifth ammendments are not GOD given, they come from our man-made constitution, they're not one of the ten commandments. It also gives us the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These people are stealing MY rights by using drugs. Not to mention my hard-earned tax dollars on what is SUPPOSED to be TEMPORARY assistance. Personally, I'd like to see the requirement added that anyone on assistance longer than six months be required to have a part-time job, be in full-time school, or be permanently and medically disabled to receive assistance on a longer term basis.

There are too many people who believe welfare is their god-given right and this country and its hard-working citizens owe them. I don't owe anyone anything. We have a neighbor that collects his check each month, can tell you where every food pantry, assistance center, soup kitchen, free meal, clothing pantry, and any other place that offers anything free. He can tell you where to go to get free toys for your kids for Christmas, free food baskets at Christmas and Thanksgiving. He can tell you how to get free medical and dental care and knows the ins and outs of the system. He stood in his yard and screamed andc cursed the government when they cut his food stamps down when his mother passed away. That's the kind of person that should be required to have a part-time job or he shouldn't receive benefits.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

How about telling us in your own words what Marchwinski v Howard was about and what the court decided.

Those are my own words.

 

[targus]

Those are my own words.

What I mean is - what were the facts of the case?

On what circumstances did the court decide that it was unconstitutional?

You said to see Marchwinski v. Howard.

I am asking you to summarize it in your own words since you are offering it here.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Michigan passed a law requiring drug testing of welfare recipients. A suit was filed, and a United States District Court struck down the law because it violated the Fourth Amendment, based on prior United States Supreme Court decisions which allowed drug testing by the government only in cases where public safety was an issue or in correctional situations. The State appealed, and a three judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit overruled the District Court and upheld the program. The Court then agreed to hear the case en banc. That had the effect of vacating the ruling of the three judge panel. The full Circuit Court heard the case and deadlocked 6-6. That had the effect of affirming the District Court's ruling overturning the law.

 

[poncho]

The government has forced no one into welfare. I will stand by that statement until my dying breath. Welfare happens because of one of two things: either bad decisions, or unforeseen events (such as fire, earthquake, etc.).
What is wrong with having to show that you are a responsible, law abiding citizen in order to get help? Or in order to get/keep a job? It is not the government's fault that many people choose to disobey the law, and that you cannot tell who is and who is not obeying it simply by looking. If you want to throw some blame at someone, then throw the blame at pot/crack/opium heads, and not the government. It's definitely not perfect, but it's not at fault here.

Was it not the government that gave a private banking cartel a monopoly on the creation of money from nothing? If you have no idea of how our monetary system actually works and it sounds as if you don't.

CLICK HERE. And learn.

The other part of your argument fit's perfectly with the modern mainstream notion that everyone is guilty until proven innocent. That's about as un - American as it gets friend.

We shouldn't have to keep proving we are innocent! Especially to an organization that is as corupt and morally bankrupt as our government.

 

[poncho]

Nope . . . sorry Salty my mistake I should have wrote this in a third grade format instead of a sixth grade format so y'all could grasp it easier. Let me give it another try, okay?

Because the government by not performing it's constitutional duties has set up the situtation whereby you must either sign away your God given (fourth and fifth amendment) rights (against warrantless searches and self incrimination) or go hungry, cold and homeless bow bow bow.

In other words if you want to eat again, or remain employed, or simply wish to be considered a "good citizen" in this day and Orwellian age then you have to sign this contract that voids and nullifies any and all rights (that the company, corporation or government specifies) you were granted by your creator on the condition of being born a human being on planet earth.

There is no right God given or otherwise to collect welfare. QUOTE]


I think the key word here is warrantless. These tests are not warrantless. According to the Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, more than 1 in 4 mothers on welfare are addicted to alcohol and/or drugs. Secondly, the fourth an fifth ammendments are not GOD given, they come from our man-made constitution, they're not one of the ten commandments. It also gives us the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These people are stealing MY rights by using drugs. Not to mention my hard-earned tax dollars on what is SUPPOSED to be TEMPORARY assistance. Personally, I'd like to see the requirement added that anyone on assistance longer than six months be required to have a part-time job, be in full-time school, or be permanently and medically disabled to receive assistance on a longer term basis.

There are too many people who believe welfare is their god-given right and this country and its hard-working citizens owe them. I don't owe anyone anything. We have a neighbor that collects his check each month, can tell you where every food pantry, assistance center, soup kitchen, free meal, clothing pantry, and any other place that offers anything free. He can tell you where to go to get free toys for your kids for Christmas, free food baskets at Christmas and Thanksgiving. He can tell you how to get free medical and dental care and knows the ins and outs of the system. He stood in his yard and screamed andc cursed the government when they cut his food stamps down when his mother passed away. That's the kind of person that should be required to have a part-time job or he shouldn't receive benefits.

"Secondly, the fourth an fifth ammendments are not GOD given, they come from our man-made constitution, they're not one of the ten commandments."

You've just tipped your hand. You know little to nothing of the principles this nation was founded on if you believe this. We may as well have never fought the American revolution and have a king that grants rights to those he favors and only those he favors. Thank the good Lord that people didn't think like you and Sapper back then!!!

From the declaration of independence . . .

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

I took the liberty of finding the definition of unalienable for you.

: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred [1]

All men are born with the same rights no piece of parchment or body of men can grant them.

"I think the key word here is warrantless. These tests are not warrantless."

No they are a condition of government coercion.

The definition of liberty is, freedom from government coercion.

Evidently you care little about liberty when it pertains to others. But whoa unto them whom you suspect of stepping on your's!

I find your whole post interesting and very telling. You seem quite upset that your tax dollars might go to someone who you feel is not worthy of them. How do you feel about your tax dollars being used to support, arm and train terrorists? I only ask because that is exactly what our government is and has been using them for in Lybia and other countries now occupied by the "international community" since 1953.

Your tax dollars have been and are being used to enrich a private banking cartel at your children's expense. The words of Thomas Jefferson . . .

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ​

This is exactly what is happening today just as Jefferson predicted. I suugest you go up to my last post and click on the link and learn the truth about our monetary system. In the meantime . . .​

Look around you there are signs of economic collapse everywhere and what caused it? A private global banking cartel and the corporations that grew up around it! This is the major casue of poverty not just in these United States but the whole world today. I'll bet you aren't all hot under the collar about that though are you?

Don't blame this on the poor you've help to create by turning a blind eye to the rampant coruption of our politicians who are firmly in the grasp of what Thomas Jefferson warned us about 200+ years ago.

Your view as that of Sapper Woody fits perfectly with the modern mainstream notion that everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

"Personally, I'd like to see the requirement added that anyone on assistance longer than six months be required to have a part-time job, be in full-time school, or be permanently and medically disabled to receive assistance on a longer term basis."

Now this I can agree with but when you start thinking everyone is guilty until proven innocent and forcing them to prove their innocence over and over again to your satisfaction you are in danger of becoming just as un - American as the bastardized system of government we have today.

 

[KobrinFamily]

I'd be more interested in their work history. I would rather them prove they can't survive without my money. There is no reason to have 6 generations of the same family on welfare. Dope, or no dope.

Once again, it's the wrong question.[/QUOTE

I have seen this over and over!!

 

[poncho]

If you want to get depressed or angry, the New York Times has an article celebrating the effort by politicians at all levels of government to lure more people into the food stamp program. New York City is running ads in foreign languagues asking people to stick their snouts in the public trough. The City is even signing up prisoners when they get out of jail. The state of New York, meanwhile, actually set up quotas for enrolling new recipients. And on the federal level, there apparently is a program that gives states “bonuses” for putting more people on the dole. No wonder one out of every eight Americans is receiving food stamps. By the way, this is not just the fault of Democrats. The ranking Republican on the Agriculture Committee is a big defender of the program, in part because of the sordid pact among urban and rural politicians to support each other’s handouts. And President George W. Bush’s food stamp administrator actually had the gall to assert “food stamps is not welfare.” No wonder the burden of federal spending skyrocketed during the reign of so-called compassionate conservatism. The correct policy, of course, is to get the federal government out of the welfare business. If Mayor Bloomberg thinks it is a “civic duty” to expand food stamps, he should see whether New York City voters agree with him – and want to foot the bill.

< snip >

The federal government now gives bonuses to states that enroll the most eligible people. …In 2008, the program got an upbeat new name: the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — SNAP.

CONTINUE . . .

Naw Sapper, the government has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

 

[poncho]

How to pass a government mandated drug srceen and collect a welfare check. Stop using until you can pass the test get your cash and go buy some dope. Viola!

Hey while we're talking about dope . . . where was America's crack cocaine epidemic born? South-Central Los Angeles. But why South LA?


FOR THE BETTER PART of a decade, a San Francisco Bay Area drug ring sold tons of cocaine to the Crips and Bloods street gangs of Los Angeles and funneled millions in drug profits to a Latin American guerrilla army run by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, a Mercury News investigation has found.

This drug network opened the first pipeline between Colombia's cocaine cartels and the black neighborhoods of Los Angeles, a city now known as the "crack'' capital of the world. The cocaine that flooded in helped spark a crack explosion in urban America � and provided the cash and connections needed for L.A.'s gangs to buy automatic weapons.

It is one of the most bizarre alliances in modern history: the union of a U.S.-backed army attempting to overthrow a revolutionary socialist government and the Uzi-toting "gangstas'' of Compton and South-Central Los Angeles.

The army's financiers -- who met with CIA agents both before and during the time they were selling the drugs in L.A. -- delivered cut-rate cocaine to the gangs through a young South-Central crack dealer named Ricky Donnell Ross.

Unaware of his suppliers' military and political connections, "Freeway Rick" -- a dope dealer of mythic proportions in the L.A. drug world -- turned the cocaine powder into crack and wholesaled it to gangs across the country.

The cash Ross paid for the cocaine, court records show, was then used to buy weapons and equipment for a guerrilla army named the Fuerza Democratica Nicaraguense (Nicaraguan Democratic Force) or FDN, the largest of several anti-communist commonly called the Contras.

CONTINUE . . .

So there ya have it Sapper. The CIA's guerrilla army needed weapons and it got them through the sale of drugs. Hey what's a few million ruined American lives compared to joys of helping foreign rebels overthrow a socialist government? But it all worked out in the end. In response the government "declared war on drugs" which naturally meant that the government would get more money, more power and more control over all our lives.

I often wonder at how it is you all can only see the need for more government control over our lives. More often than not if you take away the emotional response and look deep into a problem you'll find that 7 out of 10 times the government has had a hand in creating it!

 

[Gina B]

Why on earth is it unconstitutional to require drug testing for welfare but it's constitutional to require it for a job? Shoot. If someone wants to give me money for return for what I hand over in a cup (ew, it's not like I'm gonna keep it for my personal use anyhow) and that's all I have to do, SOCK IT TO ME BABY! Give me TEN cups. Per day. Can I get paid by the cup? :-D
Whiners. LOL

 

[Robert Snow]

This move will create jobs. There will be labs and testing facilities and there will be jobs as people sell ways to beat the drug test. This way the state gets to test the welfare recipient, the welfare recipient gets to continue to do his drugs (if he so desires) and there are business created on both sides of the coin which provides jobs.

There is also an added incentive for the welfare recipient who uses drugs to stop using them.

 

[Gina B]

There are already products to beat drug tests. I was pretty surprised when I found out the weird way (via a neighbor who asked me to buy her a cleansing supplement at a GNC store and the worker informed me what most people use that particular one for).
Maybe we should all buy stock in GNC before mandatory testing goes nationwide? Then again that was over a decade ago so maybe they've pulled the product by now.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Why on earth is it unconstitutional to require drug testing for welfare but it's constitutional to require it for a job?

A job test is done by a private employer. Although I am not sure if a test for welfare would pass muster or not. On the surface it seems reasonable. However tests can produce inaccurate results.

 

[billwald]

I suppose most of you would support drug tests for drivers licenses, collecting SS, medicare . . . how about marriages licenses?

 

[poncho]

There are already products to beat drug tests. I was pretty surprised when I found out the weird way (via a neighbor who asked me to buy her a cleansing supplement at a GNC store and the worker informed me what most people use that particular one for).
Maybe we should all buy stock in GNC before mandatory testing goes nationwide? Then again that was over a decade ago so maybe they've pulled the product by now.

Don't waste your money Gina. None of that stuff works. Aspirin is the only thing that'll beat the EMIT test. And then only for THC.

I can understand not wanting to have a drugged out employee while at work but how is it the company's business what a person does at home? What's next? Maybe one of those ankle things people wear when under house arrest?

"You agree that as a condition of employment you'll be required to wear this ankle device that monitors for "illegal" drug use and or _____ 24 hours a day 7 days a week for the duraton of your time with ACME Inc. Sign here"

People will find ways around that too I'll bet. Soooo . . . the only sure way is a an RFID subdermal microchip. Want welfare? Get chipped. Want a job? Get chipped? Want to drive a car? Get Chipped. Want to board a plane? Get chipped. Take a bus? Get chipped. Shop at Global Mart? Get chipped. Want your kids to attend school? Get em chipped.

One thing'll lead another? Usually does. Freedom is a loophole to governmental types and a threat to those who make it their business to pry into other people's business.

If a person shows up at work stoned. Fire em. If a welfare recipient gets busted for drugs stop payments but let's not make everyone prove their innocence just because we don't approve of an "alternative" lifestyle. That's for control freaks and communists not freedom loving Americans.

 

[Salty]

In my job, I am required by law to be subject to a drug test.

Constitutionally, I don't have a problem with it as the purpose is to protect other people - ie my customers and other drivers on the road.

When it comes to welfare - you do not have a "right" to it. It is a privilege that is granted (albeit improperly approved by the feds).

So in essence I am the "employer" of those on welfare
I say test em. You fail - you loose the "benefits"

Responsibly is the name of the game.

and yes, if someone thinks they failed improperly,I wouldn't have a problem with an secured appeal but if they fail that one, they pay for the second test.

 

[poncho]

Well, Mr. Smith as you know we only hire responsible people here at ACME Inc. If you are responsible then you'll have no problem with being chipped. Our research shows that responsible people have nothing to hide. You don't have anything to hide do you Mr. Smith? Good then you'll have no problem with being chipped. But first you'll have to sign this waiver that releases the company from any and all responsibility in the rare instance of any unforeseen ill side effects from your RFID subdermal micro chip.

Here at ACME Inc. Responsibility is the name of the game.

 

[Salty]

Well, Mr. Smith as you know we only hire responsible people here at ACME Inc. If you are responsible then you'll have no problem with being chipped. Our research shows that responsible people have nothing to hide. You don't have anything to hide do you Mr. Smith? Good then you'll have no problem with being chipped. But first you'll have to sign this waiver that releases the company from any and all responsibility in the rare instance of any unforeseen ill side effects from your RFID subdermal micro chip.

Here at ACME Inc. Responsibility is the name of the game.

If they offer me 3 weeks vacation, good health benifits, and a four day workweek (9 hrs/day) with a one hour lunch, I'll take the job

 

[poncho]

If they offer me 3 weeks vacation, good health benifits, and a four day workweek (9 hrs/day) with a one hour lunch, I'll take the job

The devil don't need to waste a whole lot of energy to win you guys over does he? He just promises an easier safer life and plays on your prejudice strings a ittle bit and you're ready to throw the whole country under the bus head first.

Enjoy your ankle braclets and subdermal micro chips, y'all. :thumbs: