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Featured Well, what do you think

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:21 PM.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Did man get a second chance with the birth, death and resurrection of the Son of God, OR was it God that was taking all the chances?

    through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:8
    having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, From Phil 2:8

    saying, 'Father, if Thou be counselling to make this cup pass from me --; but, not my will, but Thine be done.' -- And there appeared to him a messenger from heaven strengthening him; and having been in agony, he was more earnestly praying, and his sweat became, as it were, great drops of blood falling upon the ground. Luke 22:42-44
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Mankind did not get a “second chance” and God took no “chances”.

    God’s plan to have a specific people for Himself was formed prior to creation and has been executed perfectly.

    peace to you
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The elect Jews.
    MB
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    And everyone else that is part of His plan for salvation. That has never changed.

    peace to you
     
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  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not even once does scripture ever say Gentiles are elect
    MB
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Right, the Gentiles were not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    People have shown you otherwise, but I’ll tell you plainly I don’t care to quibble over words.

    God’s plan of salvation always included Gentiles. Nothing changed, the was no “plan B”.

    peace to you
     
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Scriptures have been cited, which you disallow.
    Such as the whole church of Thessalonians, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
     
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  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You will not change my mind on election As I said before there is no election for Gentiles. IMO saying so places you in the shoes of Calvinist. They've taken it so far as to claim that election saves them which is false doctrine. No where in scripture is it ever said that Gentiles are elect. We are chosen because of our faith yet this is not the same as election from before the foundation. In eph 1:4 Paul use the word chosen

    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Notice that while he has" chosen us in Him" This means we are in Him when we are chosen that we should be holy and blameless in Love. It is not saying we are chosen before we are in Him and it doesn't say we are elect.
    Now you'll say it means the same thing. I say it does not because I will never be anything Like the Calvinist and think I have replaced the Jews Which is exactly what this nonsense of being elect is all about. Calvinist think of them selves as a replacement for the Jews.There is reason why the Bible uses both words Elect and Chosen. It's for no other reason than to show a difference is implied.
    Remember I told you not to get a swelled head because I'm man enough to admit it when I'm wrong. But when I;m right I stick by what I believe is true until someone proves me wrong You're welcome to try if you like but I'll just consider you a swelled head.
    MB
     
    #9 MB, Nov 22, 2020 at 12:43 PM
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 1:00 PM
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It's not a second chance for Gentiles. Christ was our first chance and only Chance. If we do not accept Him we are lost eternally
    MB
     
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    True and there not called Gentiles they are Jews...
    MB
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You are simply wrong. God’s plan for His people was always to be comprised of all nations, not just Hebrews.

    peace to you
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well there are a number of issues with your arguments here.
    First you argued, "You will not change my mind on election."
    I presume in your following arguments you have given your reason or reasons. Please, restate it or them for me, to make sure I am hearing what you mean.
    Second, Ephesians 1:4. "he hath chosen" is the base Greek word from which the word "elect" is based. 1 Peter 1:2. Matthew 24:31. So at this point I am not yet understanding your arguement.
     
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It's too bad you do not understand. God told the Jews they were elect in Jacob IOW's Jacob was the first elect.All those related to Jacob were considered elect. No where in scripture does God tell the Gentiles they are now His elect also. Jacob was particularity elect and all those related to him. You and Calvinist are alike in believing you are elect as well Yet you did not inherit election. You were not pronounced elect any where in scripture. We cannot replace the Jews nor would I want to There elect- ion has been a curse on them because they rejected Christ. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

    :this verse says nothing about election but says chosen. Ask your self why. Why doesn't it say elected instead. Why doesn't it say Gentiles. This verse is talking about being holy and with out blame. It's not talking about election at all. Yet Calvinist and Arminians both believe they are the elect in there presumed Idea of election. What you believe about it is not supported by scripture. It is all philosophy not scripture. Every passage people have shown me so far is nothing more than there philosophy. Not once is ever implying election for Gentles.

    You believe that it you are elect in error. Calling your self elect you present your self as a Jew the Bible says
    Rev_3:9 lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; lo, I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.
    MB
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Really where does scripture say that? Could this be your Philosophy?
    MB
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You accuasae me falsely. How does Jacob being the first elect disallow gentiles from becoming God's elect too?

    That truth maybe some how foundational to your denial of God's election of gentiles.

    Wrongly supposing I do not understand what I do understand makes me think you are some kind of a nut job.
    You disallow any such Scriptures. I am asking you to explainn how one comes to that view. And you start with a false accusation in your first sentence.

    It would seem you are not capable explaining your own point of view in any simple way. All you can do is disallow what you choose to deny.

    Romans 9:25-26, ". . . As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You ignore out of hand all scripture given to you that demonstrate the gentiles are considered part of the elect. I’ll not waste effort to repeat what has been said, or give you more to ignore.

    I believe you are in error on this issue. We can simply disagree.

    peace to you
     
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No scripture has ever proved Gentiles are elect, iit's in your philosophy not scripture.. I never ignore scripture I ignore the Philosophy of others because it nothing but speculation.
    MB
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Scripture has been cited. You responded by saying the scripture doesn’t say what it says. You give no alternative reading of the passage. You give no analysis of the language.

    You simply say, “no it doesn’t”.

    That’s not debating. It’s a waste of effort to even address such a lack of intellectual engagement.

    You are wrong on the issue and you are wrong that scripture has not been given to support the position.

    peace to you
     
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I can't help it if you are ignorant of the fact that If a verse doesn't mention election for Gentiles your interpretation of it is wrong There are no verses that support election for Gentiles. Of course your interpretation is as important as what scripture actually says. Your interpretation is what you believe. Your interpretation.
    Everytime you read the word you apply it to your self when Paul taught in the synagogues for the most part. Gentiles have never been welcomed in a synagogue. So it is unreasonable to assume that Paul was always talking to Gentiles. Your Philosophy is wrong. It does not line up with scripture because it's your Philosophy "Your interpretation". Not to mention claiming election is you trying to replace the Jews with your self. When you say you are elect you are saying you are a Jew.
    MB
     
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