What alcohlic beverages do you drink?

Sounds kinda like situation ethics! But drinking alcohol is still condemned by God, but one has to take the Bilbe literally to arrive at this conclusion. There are far more verses condemning booze than those that seem to say it is okay.

As for going out to drink or drinking while you are out the result is the same.

 

Sounds kinda like situation ethics! </font>[/QUOTE]Nope. It’s about the intent and motivation of the action (remember, Jesus talked a lot about the important of intentions behind a believer’s actions – think about the sermon on the mount in Matthew).

Nope. You have to take the exact opposite view of what the Bible has to say about drinking to draw your conclusions. You cannot claim to interpret the Bible “literally” and yet ignore all of the places where wine is used properly by believers. Christ even made wine for the wedding celebration as His first miracle.

No. You’re not being “literal” at all. Please deal with what the Bible actually says…

When you add an unbiblical standard to the Christian faith and then judge and condemn others by your unbiblical standard, you are working against the Kingdom of God just like the Pharisees.

All of those verses are condemning drunkenness and excess. That’s “literally” what they are talking about.

This is a false assumption. One can have a drink while out and not get drunk. Those who go out “drinking” are usually out to get drunk. Drunkenness is condemned and self-discipline and moderation are encouraged.

They are very different results.

 

I like what I read in the scriptures concerning Hannah and Eli.

1 Sam 1:15-17
15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
17 Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him.
(KJV)

I guess Eli was a legalist. I reckon he just didn't know that the Lord God was in favor of liquor. Wow! Such harsh language. I can't believe he would put her on such a guilt trip. What a man without scriptural understanding. He just didn't get the training on how to help people go through the 12 steps.
Now.....those that want to pass the bottle will say that is O.T. or that is only because she was viewed as being out of control and a little won't hurt anybody or Jesus used it in the N.T. Those that want to please God and follow the scripture won't make excuses, slide sideways, look for a loophole or anything else. I'd say some of ya'll need to go to work in Philly as a lawyer. Payday someday!
Thanks ------Bart

 

Jesus drank wine. Jesus preached about not putting new wine into an old wineskin (fermentation).

We should all aspire to model our lives on that of Jesus Christ. If He drank wine, so can we.

 

Actually, it’s those who want to actually pay attention to the teaching of scripture.

Yep, that’s biblical teaching.

Ah yes, this kind of false judgment was used against Jesus too:

Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Please notice, He came eating and was accused of excess (gluttony) and came drinking and was accused of excess (“a winebibber” or drunkenness).

Those who automatically accuse their brothers and sisters in Christ of being in sin because they drink moderately are following in the footsteps of those who falsely accused Jesus.

Indeed. Time to repent.

 

hmmmmmm....I guess its ok to ignore this verse. It really doesn't go with anything you all are saying. I guess I will just pretend I never posted.

Sherrie

 

hmmmmmm....I guess its ok to ignore this verse. It really doesn't go with anything you all are saying.</font>[/QUOTE]I don't ignore that verse, but I can't figure out which translation you are using... it does not accurately present the Greek text.

Here's the way the KJV version renders it:

And every modern translation I've checked translates this passage as referring to drunkeness. Moderate consumption of alcohol is not being condemned here.

I'm not sure I'd trust the Bible translation you're using. It sounds like it has a strong agenda.

No, no, no... the truth can stand up to challenges.

Now what translation are you using?

[ May 05, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]

 

I agree with what Sherrie and many others have said. Further, if I thought my drinking would be a stumbling block for any born again believer, I would (and do) abstain.

Clearly, we see here that it is a major stumbling block ...
PJ

 

We had a discussion of "stumbling blocks" in a theology class once where the professor pointed out that there are some legalists who will claim that the other Christians who do not follow their extrabiblical rules are causing them to "stumble" -- but actually, the other Christians are just making the legalists mad.

I've had some previously close friends who told me that I was a "stumbling block" to them and non-believers because I owned and used biblical translations in addition to the KJV! Because they could not present a biblical or historical argument that would make me a KJVO person, they resorted to religious blackmail/intimidation by using Paul's admonition to exercise care with our liberty as believers. I was very concerned about the situation for a while until I realized that they were asking me to go against truth in order to appease them. I chose truth and lost some friends.

In a similar way, there are those who don't like the clear teaching of scripture concerning the use of alcohol. We certainly can choose in good conscience not to use alcohol for the sake of those who are still caught in legalism or the dangers of addiction, but we must not try to pervert the clear teaching of scripture in order to make it fit our prejudices or convictions.

 

We have a board member who is an alcoholic. She just admitted it and went to her first AA meeting this past weekend. She had said she was going to come and post her problem but has not. I wonder if she saw this thread. I've not heard from her since the morning after her first meeting and she has not posted on the board....

Could this thread be a stumbling block? It made me wonder.

Diane

 

A stumbling block is not refering to making other people upset or offended. It is refering to convincing someone with a different conscience to imitate you and then feel (or know) that they have sinned because it went agaist there conscience. If I eat meat sacrificed to an idle, and my brother thinks this is wrong but does so because I do so but then sins because it was agaist his conscience then I have caused another to stumble. My wife will not abstain from wearing pants simply because it offends some of you out there. She will only abstain if a weeker sister imitates her and then feels guilty, then we will know that we have done wrong.

1 Corinthians 8:4-13 (EPHESIS MINE)
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple,
WILL NOT HIS CONSCIENCE, IF HE IS WEAK, BE STRENGTHENED TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS?
or through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

 

It was MKJV from E-sword.

Sherrie

 

I don’t think so. The main discussion of the thread has concentrated on the issue of what the Bible says about the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Clearly, the Bible does not teach against the consumption of alcoholic beverages, but also strongly cautions and condemns the misuse of alcoholic beverages.

Some people have had problems with alcohol and certainly should not drink. Others have never had the desire to be intoxicated and very carefully and responsibly use alcoholic beverages.

Certainly someone who has had trouble with alcohol should not drink. I don’t think you can find anyone in this thread posting any encouragement to do anything self-destructive.

 

I personally have drank since I have been saved, but currently, I choose to abstain because I am concerned about the testamony issues. I do not want to jeopardize the witness I present.

 

Baptist Believer, I did not mean to imply anyone on this thread would encourage an alcoholic to drink but meant that this lady might read replies saying it's 'okay to drink' and drink again. This weekend was her first AA meeting. She wrote and shared with me as part of her 12 step program and has not written me again. I would hate to ever think someone who was weak might stumble because of our discussion.

Diane

Ouch! Spelling error! Edited!!

[ May 07, 2003, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

AA is getting pretty un-Bibilcal these days. I would try to get her involved in a Reformers Unanimous group if one is near you. It is a Christian perspective on how to handle addictions including alcoholism. Here is the link:

http://www.reformu.com/enter.htm

 

AF Guy, this woman is a brand new member here on the board. I do not know her at all. She chose to write me about her problem and has not responded to any notes since her 'confession'. She had told me she was coming to the board to confess because she had 'lied' about her situation and needed to clear things up.

IF I hear from her, I will offer her the link. Thank you for sharing this.

Diane

 

Reformers Anonymous? Is that for recovering Calvinists?

I used to pastor a church that was rabidly anti-drinking, except at communion--had to be home-made wine. Go figure.

The only Alcoholic beverage I drink is Nyquil, and only when really sick!