What contributions have Catholics made...

Really? Please show the class, then, what heretical doctrines Constantine promulgated that wrought this great transformation, which heretical bishops he appointed, and to which Sees.

 

Better yet - show how the 20+ papal lines all converged back into one.

Show how the 3 papal lines that were all defrocked - all debunked - all ended by the Emperor of the "Holy Roman Empire" (who then settup his OWN council of Cardinals to start a new line of Popes) is somehow "the continuation of one unbroken line".

Show Peter - praying to the dead, talking about sinless Mary, preaching purgatory, declaring the Lateran IV "extermination of jews and heretics", preaching about indulgences.

It just is not there for first century Bible author - ECFs!!

(The very ECFs the RCC is most anxious to ignore).

However we CAN show RC historians themselves admitting to the "entrance of paganism" into the church at the time of constantine with all its "ceremonies borrowed from paganism".

How can that be missed?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Hmm... do they call for the "extermination of jews and heretics"?

do they "pray to the dead" and then boldly admit that this was the sort of thing that God in the Old Testament told Israel to abolish?

Do they claim Mary is "sinless like Christ" or "Queen of heaven" or "co-redemptrix with Christ" or "all powerful like Christ" or ...

Do they claim the "power" to "confect God" in the Lord's Supper?

Do they claim that their pastors "retain that power" even after they themselves find a given pastor to be in gross error and remove him from office?

Do they argue that at Mary's Christ all the apostles "came flying" to meet Mary just prior to her death?

Do they burn the bibles of their own churche members with the expressed goal of keeping their supposedly stupid ignorant church members from having access to scripture - so that church members must only rely on 'what they are told' rather than being ABLE to check out what is being taught "sola scriptura"??

I find it odd that you would want to compare their history with that of the RCC.

 

Which ceremonies? Please be specific.

 

The copying continued - of necessity since there was no other method of preserving and disseminating manuscripts - until the invention of printing in the mid-15th century. So, are you saying that the Catholic Church in its present form only existed after then?

 

Bob Ryan...

I dont know how things that are so ridiculously obvious regarding Catholicsm can be missed.

I guess they just choose to miss it.

 

I am currently reading "the Story of Christianity" by Justo L. Gonzalez (non-Catholic evangelical) and the idea that Constantine "started the RCC" is simply and utterly false.

Read some history books on the church, guys, before you start throwing around crazy allegations. They just make you look foolish and ignorant.

 

That just sounds funny! :laugh: :laugh: Kind of like Harold Garvey saying he teaches a class on the history of translations.

 

oh well -- ok... as told by RC Historians and commentors themselves...

1. the Christian Church was massively changed at the time of Constantine

The Catholic historian Thomas Bokenkotter's best selling pro-Catholic book "a concise history of the Catholic church" makes it abundantly clear..

How much influence did Emperor Constantine have on the RCC “really”. How much of a role in moving it past the point of merely “Not persecuted” ?

Ibid -Pg 49 speaks of the change that occurred in the 4th century

So there we have it on two short pages (49-50) of that telling work done by a Catholic historian - revealing the ongoing evolutionary process in the church that brings us to where we are today. And the author is clearly pointing to the aspect of paganism introduced into the church at that time.

But that RC author does not stop there - he continues...

in Christ,

Bob

 

First we notice some of the details "borrowed from paganism"

Prior to this time - the format or liturgy for church was pretty much ad hoc.

 

But of course - paganism in the Christian church influenced MORE than just ceremony -

 

Catholics of the 20th century publish the connection to paganism for the world to see and understand. (Catholic Digest is the 2nd largest Catholic publication on the planet – though it is not written by the Vatican itself)

Pagan prayer methods.

..


Paganism missing a commandment

 

If the RCC is wrong about its unbiblical claims regarding the eucharist then it is “idolatry” according to the RCC itself!.

The Faith Explained – A bestselling RC commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II by Leo J. Trese is promoted as “A standard reference for every Catholic home and library”. Complete with Papal Imprimatur -- Quote from page 350-351

Parenthetical inserts “mine”

 

Do they call their pastors FATHER even after the Word of God specifically commands not to?:applause::thumbsup:

 

lay off the Chick tracks pleeeeeeaseeee!!!!

if according to St. Matthew 23:8-10, Catholics and Orthodox (as I'm Orthodox) are guilty in calling their pastor "father", then everyone is just as guilty for referring to people as "doctor" (latin for 'teacher') or "mister/mistress" (latin for 'master')...

but oh, i forgot...the Holy Scriptures were written in English...lol...

In XC
-

 

JDF: What is your source of information about this 'fact'. Who was copying the bible and where?

When was the NT canon determined and by who?

 

Lets see, when you fill out of form (lets say medical) and it ask the name of your mother, you fill in her name, write. When it ask the name of your father, do you scratch that name out and quote a bible verse (very much out of context) and write in the word 'dad'?

How do you feel about calling a minister 'reverend'? I have Methodist pastor as a friend that has told his congregation he prefers to be called Mister before conferring such a title to his office.