Featured What does Baptist mean now?

That is kind of the point isn't it?

 

which is sad, as ALL of the above would be seen as baptists, for in our diversity we allow each one the right to inteprete and understand the scriptures, as long as staying within "orthodoxy!"

 

LOL then we can argue about what is orthodox

 

yep, the classic pensacostal baptists can hash it out with the Chasmatic ones what true Holy Ghost baptism is, arminian baptists debate NON cal ones on what extent free Will still reamins, and the cals can argue if it is reformed only that qualifies as being a cal!

 

Interesting thread!
But I do not see any conclusions!
What does the Bible say about becoming a child of God? Does it say you have to be baptist, catholic etc.?

If we are born from above we are His child! Bottom line!

 

I posted in the other thread (Baptist Name changes) that I can only think of 2 things that ALL Baptists would agree on:

1. Believer's baptism (after conversion...not babies)

2. Local Church Autonomy.


Aside from this, you can find Baptists (probably even on this board) who disagree about every other possible issue:

-Security of Salvation
-Fate of those who never hear the Gospel
-Charismatic gifts
-Whether God Causes evil
-Which Bible is the real one (KJV vs. others)
-etc...

 

Couple more to add that we all agree on!

local church autonomy
Seperation church and sate, in that no official US religion established
Each person free to get doctrines from scriptures, personal understanding, as long as orthodox, NOT the church telling us we MUST belive this or that!

 

Some other that most baptist believe..
*Jesus is the son of God... born of a virgin.

*He voluntarily shed His blood and died on the cross in our place to take our punishment onto Himself (Romans 5:8, 1 John 1:7, 2:2). Since He is infinitely righteous, His death atoned for an infinite number of sins, past, present, and future. This makes it possible for us to be forgiven and to stand before God, spotless and cleansed of all our sins.

*After three days in the grave Jesus was brought back to life, and He is alive now and forevermore (John 20:27-28, Romans 14:9, Revelation 1:18).

*Salvation comes to us only through the grace of God.

 

Church autonomy: I said that

Separation...I don't know...some baptists thing government should put homosexuals to death.

Soul liberty...Some baptists believe everyone should believe exactly as they say.

 

Most maybe, but not all...some liberal baptists deny the virgin birth & the physical resurection...

 

Interesting...I thought all baptist believed the basics of salvation?

 

And not another individual doing that, either, as one or some on here would like to do.

 

Penal substitutionary atonement is not one of the basics of salvation.

 

Some Liberal Baptists deny the virgin birth [of Christ] and the physical resurrection [i.e the empty tomb]? Can you provide your basis for this assertion, 12 Strings?

 

So ALL Baptists truly believe in local church autonomy??!!??

Boy, that's a real surprise to me!!!!!!!!

If ALL Baptists honestly believe in local church autonomy as some people state, please tell me why then do so many (esp., but NOT always IFB) preachers condemn (often quite openly [say, e.g.,at some "Bible(?) conference" or maybe at a local area pastors' "fellowship," etc.]) some other BC for such things as:
1) Having a bus/van ministry?
2) Having a childrens/junior church?
3) Using 'slides' to show the lyrics to a hymn/"praise" song(s) rather than spending money on hymnbooks?
4) Passing offering plates instead of having the congregation come forward and put their offerings/tithes in a box?
5) Having (or NOT having) outreach ministries such as AWANA, Youth For Christ, Fellowship of Christian Athletics, etc.?

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

My point is this: If Baptists REALLY hold to local church autonomy, do they have the right to (often times very boldly [brazenly{?}]) come out and condemn/"unchurch" other BC's on such things as I've mentioned above---most of which are not really very clearly and/or openly condemed or condoned in God's Word?

Please note that I'm not suggesting that there may be situations arise over some of these (especially with #5) that may require a certain amount of discernment in that these things don't start becoming "an end unto itself/themselve(s)."

But, even then, wouldn't it be more "Christ-like" to perhaps take that BC's pastor aside and voice one's concerns about what a certain Baptist preacher(s) may perceive to be a potential, or maybe even a REAL, "problem" before we publicly cruicify that BC for doing something that God's Word is, for the most part, relatively silent about?

What do you think?

P. S. --- I ask these things because about 30-35 years ago I was in a church (not as a pastor since so far at least the immutable God hasn't seen fit to "call this 66+ YO [46.5 as a child of God] never-married, celibate male into the pulpit ministry), I was in a Bible college ministry that eventually folded---due in almost entirely because 2-3 self-appointed IFB preachers viewed several of the above-mentioned items that the church of which I was a member claimed that because we did (or DIDN'T do) some of the above-mentioned things, that this IFB had now "Gone 'Liberal' and/or 'compromised' and/or 'gone modern,'" and thus was "no longer a TRUE BC and therefore her Bible college was unworthy of any/all financial support/sending "our" young folks to go to that college.

Needless to say, that church subsequently had to disband its Bible college within a few years of that happening.

 

Hi Ktn4eg, some studies indicate humans can be catigorized into 4 groups, 1) social folks who like to fellowship, 2) sellers who like to persuade others, 3) controllers who want to lead, even if they do not know the way, and 4) contemplaters who study the data but are uncertain as to what to do.

Sadly, group number three contributes disproportionally to our pastorial team. They not only want to tell their flock what the bible means, they want to tell others as well. To use a modern term, they tend to be control freaks.

I think our schools do not stress avoidance of being manipulative. If you look at many of our church splits, they were really struggles over power. But while it is easy to describe the disease, not so easy to find a cure because all of us have the disease to some degree.

 

See below for a single example...I'm not saying it is common, but that the modernist/liberal interpretation of scripture from the early 20th Century has not been without takers among those who call themselves baptists:

(From: http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3273)
(Harry Emerson Fosdick went on to pastor a Baptist Church that was more accepting of his views).

Also, From Liberalrev.com (liberal baptist minister):

 

In wars of the past, where men openly marched in four columns, a term for an enemy agent was "fifth columnist" means an invisible insider collaborator.

In our war for truth, against the Father of Lies, liberals say they are conservatives, say they are Baptists, say they are Christian, but they are fifth columnists. And whatever the malfeasance they are engaged in, they charge their opponents as doing it in a worse way. So the first fingerprint of a "liberal" is they use the two wrongs make a right argument. Then although they pay lip service to "scripture alone" they rewrite any part that conflicts with their man-made doctrine. For example the Bible condemns homosexual behavior, just as it does gluttony. Now I am overweight, I eat more than I need to eat. Clearly I am a serial sinner. But I know it is sin, I know the bible says it is sin, and I do not accommodate my behavior by saying it is a little sin in the scheme of things or many do it or whatever. To do so would mark me as a liberal who slices and dices scripture.

I see I am rambling, but the bottom line is just because someone says he or she is a baptist, does not make he or she a baptist, but if a fifth columnist, they succeed is destroying the Baptist name.

 

meant that the Governemt cannot tell us how to worship , and edit all messages to be political correct!

And that we do not have only ONE way to see the scriptures, as the catholic church has through its "infallibility"

 

I suppose I would simply state it differently...that due to the WIDE divergence of baptists beliefs...the ONLY way to know if one is a baptist is if he or she says they are...but just because one is a self-proclaimed baptist does not mean they are a Christian.