What does "courses taught by" mean.......

It's also interesting that all but one ATS professor has an accredited terminal degree, and that a DMin, unless I missed something.

How can professors who have never earned a research doctorate from an accredited institution understand the rigor which needs to be required in courses they teach?

It's also interesting to contrast the training of those professors whose tapes are used (and who teach at accredited institutions) and the training of the ATS profs.

This is not an issue of pride (the thud you hear is me banging my head against the wall), it's an issue of veracity and credibility. It's an issue of students' money being spent on what is not the real thing.

Bill

 

They don't.

 

What a conundrum. We don't want the government to determine who can and who cannot have theological institutions, and then we establish substandard institutions which provide ammunition to those insisting upon governmental control.

Buyer beware.

Bill

 

"I think that those considering Andersonville should contact the authors of those tapes as Bock."

I think Bock (etc) would be amazed that one could get a "doctorate" degree in eight months! To say the least. I doubt they would give ATS good marks at all. That being said, any study done by Dr Bock (or any ITS prof.) is probably very good. Many good schools use ITS courses (ex: Reformed Theological Seminary, Dallas Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, etc). So don't let ATS spoil the reputation of ITS, or its professors. Using ITS courses gives ATS students the ability to be exposed to real theological scholarship. That is a good thing!!

As I have said before, ATS is fine if one is interested in a non-academic degree (ie...a ministry degree). Maybe ATS (along with a host of other schools such as Covington) should offer certificates instead of degrees. That would probably be a more accurate representation of their programs (for the most part). I am not saying Andersonville is a degree mill, IT IS NOT! And some of its programs do contain what looks to be semi-difficult work. However it is NOT the deep theological work a person who wishes to earn a real academic degree needs.

Btw, I think one can order ITS courses directly from ITS. I have never done that, but I may. I always do personal studies (away from school work). Usually I get these studies from ministries, sometimes I create my own study by reading a book and listening to a audio sermon by a good preacher (John MacArthur, Charles Stanley, etc). At this time I am studying Revelation. I ordered a tape set and study guide from Lamb & Lion Ministries (Dave Reagan). It is good, but I liked Dr Ryrie's commentary on Revelation much better. When I am finished I might look into doing a study with ITS (just for personal benefit of course). I don't think ITS offers any credits.

http://its.gospelcom.net/

 

YES! These are the reasons that we must police ourselves--to keep pure the testimony of Christainity and to keep the government out of our schools. The abuse of our religious liberty will result in its loss.

Some may call it unloving but we must expose and contend against the substandard schools for testimony's sake and liberty's sake.

 

==


But what of the arguments I have seen used here that one should not be questioned who is by his enrollment is , IMO, supporting and favoring the continuance and cancerous growth of substandard "higher", degree awarding ,Christian education because : (1) he "goes" there just for "personal development" , or, (2) he "goes " there because God told him to do that ? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]As I said elsewhere, pseudo-humility and pseudo-spirituality provide no justification for substandard institutions awarding degrees that appear to be what they are not.

paidagogos is right. While exposing the educational charlatans (Is that too strong? I have a hard time being charitable toward those who appear to be engaged in unethical practices.) may appear unloving, it is actually the loving thing to help those who know little about issues of higher education avoid such places.

Bill

 

==


But what of the arguments I have seen used here that one should not be questioned who is by his enrollment is , IMO, supporting and favoring the continuance and cancerous growth of substandard "higher", degree awarding ,Christian education because : (1) he "goes" there just for "personal development" , or, (2) he "goes " there because God told him to do that ? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]1. One can find many legitimate providers of good materials for personal development. Don't be fooled by a false humility and piety--they seek out the degree mill because they want the quick, easy and cheap degree, not the learning.

Check out the following free resource:

www.biblicaltraining.org

IMHO, Biblical training should be under the church for the layman. If a Chrsitian is attending a good Bible-believing, Bible-preaching, Bible-teaching church, he ought to be getting plenty of good Bible training. A local church can even teach language tools (i.e. Greek & Hebrew). I am a strong proponent of local church Bible institutes for laymen. Bible teaching is not just an esoteric discipline for the professionals--it's for everyone.

BTW, some of these substandard schools are very eclectic in their courses and approach. It would appear that their courses may not always jive with their professed statement of faith. This is just a general impression that I gleaned from purusing their catalogues and websites.

2. How do they know that it is God? Lots of kooks say that God told them to do outlandish things including blowing up a mosque on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. I don't believe that either.

 

UZThD,

The above suggestions are certainly commendable. Does the church you attend offer the suggested training opportunities?

 

Sad!