What does it mean to be a Fundamental Baptist?

[Wisdom Seeker]

There seems to be a lot of discussion as to what it means to be a Fundamental Baptist. What does being a Fundamental Baptist mean to you?

This thread is in no way meant to be a measureing stick of who deserves to post in this forum. It is meant to give a definition for people who are not clear as to what it means to be a Fundamental Baptist.

Thank you for your replies.

 

[just-want-peace]

I've always been terrible with definitions, but I'll give this one a stab; at least as it relates to me!

1) Accept the word of God (the bible) as literally the word of God!

2) Accept this same word literally, unless told otherwise by the word, or the context!

3) Accept that I don't understand it all ( ), and those parts that SEEM contradictory are due to an incomplete knowledge of His word! (Sorta' like the OT prophets talking about a SUFFERING and a CONQUEORING Messiah! I'm sure they had a problem with that, but hind-sight makes it simple!

)

4) I believe that the Word does not answer every question, but gives us the principles to so do IF we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us! (Now that's really a hard one for us independents! )

5) The virgin birth, 6 day creation, world-wide flood all factual and literal

6) Death-burial-resurrection of Jesus Christ as the method God has chosen to save all who will accept the sacrifice, and make Christ the Lord of their life!

Certainly not complete, but I hope this gives you some idea of what at least one person considers "fundamental"!

 

[BrianT]

To me, a "fundamental Baptist" is someone who attends a Baptist church and accepts *fundamental* Christian doctrine:

- divinity of Christ, the Son of God
- his physical death and resurrection

I think that's pretty much it.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

The name Independent Fundamental Baptist Church is used traditionally by churches which pattern themselves strictly after the example of the early church as found in the New Testament. The words "Independent" and "Fundamental" have been added by many Baptist churches to further identify themselves as truly Bible believing churches and to show a distinction between themselves and Baptist churches who were not following
fundamental teachings of the Bible , such as the deity of Christ, the virgin birth and salvation by the Grace of God, through faith.

Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such things as evangelism. They, however, will only fellowship or cooperate in joint meetings with churches of like belief.  They will not participate, on a church basis,  in any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. They will not participate in joint meetings, or evangelistic endeavors, with Protestants, Catholics, or other doctrinally unsound church groups who do not hold to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament (Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers)    Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches.  They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."   The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is to condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin.

Fundamental Baptist use the name in its strictest sense as meaning holding to the fundamentals of the New Testament teachings without error. True Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches uphold the purest teachings of the early church as revealed in the New Testament.

I hope this help a little bit.

 

[BrianT]

Hi WisdomSeeker,

I answered the question thinking just about the term "fundamental" and "Baptist". I was not thinking about those churches that call themselves "Fundamental Baptist". Is that what you were asking about? Maybe I'm just really confused. Is this question (and even this forum) supposed to be about "fundamental (lower-case f) Baptists" or "Fundamental (upper-case F) Baptists"?

Brian

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Fundamental-

Biblical innerrancy
Man's fall
Necessessity for salvation
God provided the lamb, Jesus Christ; virgin-born, sinless life, substitutionary death, subsequent resurrection
Literal Hell
Eternity in Heaven for those who believe

Independant, to me, just means independant. No affiliation with any group.

But a fundamental I see questioned a lot is the pre-trib rapture. I am a pre-tribber, and I think it's an issue we should consider before joining a Church.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

In my opinion, a Fundamental Baptist would hold to the following beliefs:

1. The inspiration (Verbal/Pleanary) of Scripture.
2. The Bible is the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
3. The preservation of Scripture. Mat 24:35
4. The deity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His vicarious atonement, and His bodily resurrection.
5. There is one God eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
6. The total depravity of man. Man is a sinner by nature, totally lost and in need of the convicting and regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.
7. Salvation is a free gift of God offered to man by His grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, plus nothing.
8. Heaven is a literal place for the redeemed of all ages to spend eternity with God.
9. Hell is a literal place of eternal damnation and separation from God. It is a literal lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels but occupied by all those who reject Jesus Christ.
10. Ecclesiastical separation with churches not of like faith and practice.
11. The autonomy of the local church.
12. The command given to the local church to carry out the dictates of the New Testament.
13. Personal separation based on the Word of God.

This is my list and my not be all inclusive. But, this is what my idea of a Fundamental Baptist is.

Pastor Bob

 

[Pioneer]

Answer to topic question:

1. Fundamentalism (as apposed to modernism or liberalism) takes the Bible literally and accepts it as God's inspired word.

2. Fundamentalism (as apposed to modernism or liberalism) believes in the bodily resurrection of Christ and accepts the necessity of the new birth.

3. Fundamentalism (as apposed to evangelicalism) understands the necessity of separating from unbelievers, false brethren, and disobedient brethren.

4. Fundamentalism (as apposed to evangelicalism) understands the necessity of separating from the world and the maintaining high standards of dress, music, ect.

5. Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

Since we are talking about Baptist fundamentalism here we must add that we believe in a regenerate church membership, baptism by immersion only and for believers only, priesthood of the believers, only 2 scriptural church offices (pastor and deacon), ect.

Bro. Steve Smith

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Pioneer:
Answer to topic question:

5. Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

Bro. Steve Smith

Then count me out.

While I am KJVO, I don't subscribe to this mentality, and believe it is a harmful attitude. The KJV has nothing to do with being a Fundie.

If KJVO is added to the requirements to post here, then I will not participate. I cannot even come close to putting words to how I feel about this. I am KJVO, but I am NOT God.

[ September 05, 2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Pioneer:


5. Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

Absolutely, emphatically false! In fact, it would be the KJVO that is pseudo or neo fundamentalism. I am not talking about KJV preferred. Believe it or not, that group includes me although I am also fond of the NASB and NKJV and use them comparatively in study.

As best as I understand the origins of fundamentalism, it came from "The Fundamentals" edited by RA Torrey and first published in 1909. These great men contributed: B.B. Warfield, James Orr, Charles Erdman, H.C.G. Moule, G. Campbell Morgan, and Bishop Ryle. None were KJVO.

To combat liberalism and higher criticism, this work was distributed by the hundreds of thousands to seminary students and clergy for free.

All true fundamentalists are in some way descendent from this stand.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Pioneer:
Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

Can you explain the above reasoning since the original Fundies didn't even use the KJV in their arguments? Maybe you have inside information.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Pioneer:
Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

Fundamentalists don't believe in sensationalism either. The KJV was a satanic counterfeit to that which was in existence in 1610 then.

Out like all logic and common sense.

 

[Bible-belted]

Originally posted by Pastor Bob 63:
In my opinion, a Fundamental Baptist would hold to the following beliefs:

1. The inspiration (Verbal/Pleanary) of Scripture.
2. The Bible is the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
3. The preservation of Scripture. Mat 24:35
4. The deity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His vicarious atonement, and His bodily resurrection.
5. There is one God eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
6. The total depravity of man. Man is a sinner by nature, totally lost and in need of the convicting and regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.
7. Salvation is a free gift of God offered to man by His grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, plus nothing.
8. Heaven is a literal place for the redeemed of all ages to spend eternity with God.
9. Hell is a literal place of eternal damnation and separation from God. It is a literal lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels but occupied by all those who reject Jesus Christ.
10. Ecclesiastical separation with churches not of like faith and practice.
11. The autonomy of the local church.
12. The command given to the local church to carry out the dictates of the New Testament.
13. Personal separation based on the Word of God.

This is my list and my not be all inclusive. But, this is what my idea of a Fundamental Baptist is.

Pastor Bob

1) Absolutely.

2) Not just authority and infallibility but Full Inerrancy.

3) Yes, provided that such does not require one to be KJVO. After all those holding tothe value of the MVs accept the preservation of God's Word in the form of the mountains of manuscript evidence.
4) Yup.

5) Trintiarianism, definitely.

6) Yup.

7) Ditto.

8) As if there were another option...

9) Yes.

10) How "not like" we talking about here? Separate over these fundamentals? Yes. Other stuff? And does separqation mean that you don't work with people on things on which there IS agreement because of things you don't agree on? Even if the joint project doesn't touch onthe differneces? I don't know about that. Does this mean never even interact in dialogue? How do you convert?

11) Yes,

12) Yes

13) Yes.

I would go on to add the necessity for evangelism, personal experience of grace through repentance, and a few other things.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:

If KJVO is added to the requirements to post here, then I will not participate.

Originally posted by myself in the Topic Question:

This thread is in no way meant to be a measureing stick of who deserves to post in this forum. It is meant to give a definition for people who are not clear as to what it means to be a Fundamental Baptist.

Originally posted by Pastor Bob 63 among other things):

10. Ecclesiastical separation with churches not of like faith and practice.

Originally posted by Latereia :

10) How "not like" we talking about here? Separate over these fundamentals? Yes. Other stuff? And does separqation mean that you don't work with people on things on which there IS agreement because of things you don't agree on? Even if the joint project doesn't touch onthe differneces? I don't know about that. Does this mean never even interact in dialogue? How do you convert?

This is what is meant by "Independent".

Amen Pastor Bob very well said.

Thank You all for your posts.

 

[HankD]

After reading this thread, I am without a doubt a fundamentalist (at least in my personal belief).

My Church (GARBC) doesn't ever use the word "fundamentalist" but certainly preaches and practices the several items mention here.

One exception in my way of thinking would be dialogue (but no worship) with those of differing beliefs (Roman Catholic for instance).
It would have to be Baptist driven, that is, we would choose the site (no images, etc) , we would develope the agenda, lead in prayer and then facilitate the meeting.
The end result being an understanding of each other but not an agreement of the minds or worship.
I don't think they would buy it though.

HankD

[ September 05, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Pastor Bob 63:
In my opinion, a Fundamental Baptist would hold to the following beliefs:

1. The inspiration (Verbal/Pleanary) of Scripture.
2. The Bible is the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
3. The preservation of Scripture. Mat 24:35
4. The deity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His vicarious atonement, and His bodily resurrection.
5. There is one God eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
6. The total depravity of man. Man is a sinner by nature, totally lost and in need of the convicting and regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.
7. Salvation is a free gift of God offered to man by His grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, plus nothing.
8. Heaven is a literal place for the redeemed of all ages to spend eternity with God.
9. Hell is a literal place of eternal damnation and separation from God. It is a literal lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels but occupied by all those who reject Jesus Christ.
10. Ecclesiastical separation with churches not of like faith and practice.
11. The autonomy of the local church.
12. The command given to the local church to carry out the dictates of the New Testament.
13. Personal separation based on the Word of God.

This is my list and my not be all inclusive. But, this is what my idea of a Fundamental Baptist is.

Pastor Bob

Interesting list.

You say this is how you describe a "Fundamental Baptist", but do you think each of those things are "fundamental"?

After reading this thread and others, and thinking about it some more, I see at least three different meanings of "fundamental" being used in this forum: "Independent Fundamental", "History Fundamental", and "fundamental" in the sense that there are some fundamental doctrines that are the basis of the definition of Christianity. It seems that the first definition is the dominant definition in this forum, while I was using the third definition. I am really not the first definition.

Here's my responses to the 13 items of Pastor Bob's list:

1. I'm not sure what you exactly have in mind by "Verbal", but other than that I agree.
2. I'm not sure what to think about your use of "only". I don't think there are other writings that are "scripture", if that's what you mean. But I also don't think that everything that Christ ever said is recorded in our Bibles, and that the things that are not recorded are not infallible. In other words, some of God's infallible words are not in the Bible.
3. Yes, although we probably differ on how or in what form the "preservation" took place.
4. Yes. This is the only "fundamental" item in your list in my opinion.

5. Yes. But I admit I do not fully understand or can explain the Trinity.
6. Yes. But not sure on how "total" the depravity is. If you meant in the Calvinistic sense, I'm unsure.
7. Yes.
8. I agree it is a literal place, but I don't think it's eternal. I believe "heaven and earth will pass away", and that we will spend eternity on the new earth (Matt 24:35, Rev 21-22), but I'm not going to speculate what eternity entails.
9. Basically, but I believe Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things. Hell is temporary, and is thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:14).
10. I echo Latreia's comments here. I also believe two "unlike" churches can work together for a common good without compromising doctrine.
11. To an extent. Really, there is only one body of believers, and I don't think the hand is really autonomous from the foot. Autonomy can be taken too far.
12. Sure
13. Sure

How'd I score?

[ September 05, 2002, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Brian said:

You say this is how you describe a "Fundamental Baptist", but do you think each of those things are "fundamental"?

Brian, this is what I would consider fundamentals of the faith for Baptists, or any true Bible-believer.

1. I'm not sure what you exactly have in mind by "Verbal", but other than that I agree.

I mean that God, through the agency of the Holy Spirit moved the men who penned the originals to write exactly what He wanted them to write while utilizing each indidual personality. Every word that is contained in the original autographs are there by the design of God.

2. I'm not sure what to think about your use of "only".

I am referring to "extra-biblical" writings like the Apocrypha, the Koran, the Book of Mormon and other writings that have been elevated to the level of Scripture.

5. Yes. But I admit I do not fully understand or can explain the Trinity.

I do not fully understand it either but I fully accept it as truth based on the Word of God.

6. Yes. But not sure on how "total" the depravity is. If you meant in the Calvinistic sense, I'm unsure.

I do not mean in the Calvanistic sense. I mean in the biblical sense that all men since Adam were born with a sin nature. In our flesh dwelleth no good thing. We need a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit to impute the righteousness of Christ in our lives.

8. I agree it is a literal place, but I don't think it's eternal. I believe "heaven and earth will pass away", and that we will spend eternity on the new earth.

Agreed. I was conveying what most people would commonly refer to as "heaven."

9. Basically, but I believe Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things. Hell is temporary, and is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Agreed. Same reasoning as above.

10. I also believe two "unlike" churches can work together for a common good without compromising doctrine.

For social programs perhaps. For worship (Promise Keepers, etc...) no. Amos 3:3 We have a small town near here that has three churches; Christian, Methodist, and Community of Christ (RLDS). They meet monthly together for a combined Sunday morning breakfast and worship service. They also combine VBS in the summer. I just cannot do that.

11. To an extent. Really, there is only one body of believers, and I don't think the hand is really autonomous from the foot. Autonomy can be taken too far.

I feel the local church should be self-governed, self-supported, able to support Missionaries of their own choosing, and teach in Sunday school whatever curriculum the Pastor deems worthy without answering to a Board or an Associational Missionary. The offerings are to stay in the local church to provide for the needs of the church and Pastor and to finance the various outreach programs.

How'd I score?

I could fellowship with you. For whatever that's worth.

Nice job,

Pastor Bob

 

[Ransom]

5. Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

#5 contradicts #1 since KJV-onlyism is not to be found in the pages of Scripture.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by Ransom:
5. Fundamentalism (as apposed to pseudo-fundamentalism) accepts the King James Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith and practice and rejects all modern English translations as Satan's counterfeits.

#5 contradicts #1 since KJV-onlyism is not to be found in the pages of Scripture.

The KJV is scripture. If you are disputing the relevancy of KJV only...then you will probably want to include any other version of the Bible that is not in the original language in your statement.

[ September 10, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

[Daniel David]

That is why we say that God inspired the original autographs. No translation has been inspired. That would mean God inspired more than one book. He didn't.