Featured What does this statement mean?

This statement is correct and scriptural.

This statement is correct, but this is not what any Calvinist believes can happen. A Calvinist does not believe a sinner who is spiritually dead has the ability to be willing to receive Christ by faith. You believe that a person must be regenerated before he has the ability to receive Jesus by faith.

So, your statement contradicts your own doctrine, unless you believe a person can be both regenerated and a sinner at the same time.

Is that what you believe? That a sinner can be regenerated?

The story of Cornelius refutes this. He believed in God, but he had neither the Holy Spirit, nor was he saved. He was obedient to God, he prayed constantly and gave alms to the poor. God heard his prayers and respected his offerings and sent an angel to tell him to send for Peter. Only after he obeyed (which Calvinists believe is impossible for an unregenerate man) and sent for Peter did he hear the gospel, believe it, and receive the Holy Spirit.

If a man without the Holy Spirit is compelled to sin, then Cornelius would not have been able to fear God and obey him. The scriptures are absolutely clear that he did.

Cornelius absolutely refutes the Calvinist view.

Nevertheless, until Cornelius received Christ he was a servant to sin. He was still under the law. He was still under the penalty of his sins.

The moment Cornelius believed on Jesus, he was no longer under the law but under grace. He no longer belonged to sin, but now belonged to Jesus. He died with Jesus paying the penalty of sin, and was raised with Jesus to new life.

Being a servant to sin does not mean you are compelled to sin every moment, but it does mean you are sold to sin. It is like when a slave was sold in the marketplace. When you sin, you sell yourself to sin. He now owns you, and his wage is death. This does not mean you must sin, a slave can disobey his master, a slave can run away from his master. Still, the slave belongs to the master.

When you trust Christ you are sold to Christ. You no longer belong to sin, you belong to Jesus. Jesus's gift is righteousness and eternal life to those whom he has purchased.

 

yes, but it can only come to them who have placed their faith unto jesus, and have received His offer of eternal life in Him!

And those are the ones that the Bible terms the Elect!

 

I believe this too, but that is not the question. What I want to know is if a person can be both regenerated and a sinner at the same time?

Exactly what does regenerated mean to you? Please explain this.

I believe this too. You sound just like every Arminian and non-Cal in the world.

But what does regenerated mean? Please explain exactly what regeneration is. Does it mean spiritually alive?

If regenerated means spiritually alive, how can a sinner be regenerated? Isn't a sinner dead in his sins? How can a sinner be both spriitually dead in his sins and spiritually alive at the same moment?

Please explain that.

Then how do you explain that the true God heard Cornelius's prayers and sent an angel to him to tell him to send for Peter? Why did Peter speaking of Cornelius BEFORE he heard the gospel and was saved say that men everywhere who do righteousness are accepted with him?

Acts 10:31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Cornelius was not saved, yet God heard his prayers. How do you explain this? Cornelius did not have the Holy Spirit yet, yet Peter said he did righteousness and was accepted with God.

How do you explain this?

Now you contradict your last statement. You said men seek after a false version of God, but now you say Cornelius sought after the Jewish God. The God of the Jews is the true God.

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Cornelius was not seeking a false God, he was seeking the true God. And God heard his prayers and sent an angel to him.

How could a man without the Holy Spirit do this?

And Cornelius proves your view to be absolutely false. He did not have the Holy Spirit, and he was not saved, yet he feared and obeyed God.

How do you explain this?

 

God's word is what enables us to believe. If not for the scriptures, you would not have a clue who Jesus Christ is and therefore could not believe on him.

Boy, you obviously do not know a thing about me. Ask anybody at BB if I am a Calvinist. I am more anti-Calvinism than anybody here, including you.

God's word teaches us and convicts us that we are sinners. God's word teaches us that Jesus is the Son of God that died for our sins and rose from the dead. God's word teaches us that if we place our trust in Jesus we will be saved.

Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

I remember the first time you came to BB, you falsely accused me as you have done again. You really should memorize this verse and take it to heart. You tend to judge folks before you know the facts (or any facts).

We would probably agree on most things, but you have a bad habit of judging people and putting words in their mouth when you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Me a Calvinist. Wow.

 

It is the dead who are regenerated (Eph. 2:1). Where do you get the idea that sinners are not the objects of regeneration? Under what kind of Calvinism? Hyper-Calvinism?

Regeneration is God giving a "new" heart which IS a willing and believing heart (Ezek. 36:26). Faith is not subequent to the giving of this heart but identical action with the giving of this new heart. Hence, there is no such thing as an unregenerated believer any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever. Regeneration and faith are simeltaneous in action with only a LOGICAL order where regeneration is the cause and faith is the consequence but regeneration is not accomplished without repentance and faith as regeneration is God TURNING a sinner while repentance and faith is the the experience of being turned. God gives the hearing ear but it IS hearing and God gives the seeing eye but it IS seeing when given. None can come to Christ in faith unless they are drawn but those being drawn ARE coming or else they are not being drawn.

Now, if you don't like my answer, I can't help that.

 

many here confuse the " Gospel is the power of God unto salvation!"

MANY here see it as having the means in and by itself to grant saving faith, to wake up sinners, to have sinners able to freely respond to jesus by it etc...

Point is that it has the power for the elect of God only, as they will be enabled by the working of the Holy spirit to be able to hear and respond in faith to Christ...

So BOTH need to happen here, dead sinners need to have the Grace of God to enable them to hear with ears that hear, and thus being able to actually respond to Christ of the Gospel in order to be saved!

this why 100 people hear SAME message. but say 50 respond by faith in christ, as their actions confirmed their election by the Lord unto eternal life in Christ!

 

Paul claims you can know you are one of God's elect by how the gospel came to you (1 Thes. 1:4-5). To the elect it comes in "power and in the Spirit and in much assurance."

This is what Paul meant when he said the gospel is "the power" of God unto salvation.

Paul likens the empowering of the gospel by the Holy Spirit to Genesis 1:3 when God commanded the light to shine out of darknesss (2 Cor. 4:6).

The elect are called by God through the gospel (2 Thes. 2:14) when he energizes it by His power as a command. This is what Paul described in Romans 10:17 by saying "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the "word" (Gr. Rhema - command) of God.

It is also likened to how God inspired the scriptures through human instruments in 2 Cor. 3:3-6. When Paul told Timothy that all scripture is "inspired" by God it is the picture of the words coming directly over the vocal chords of God breathed out on to the paper as though the human instrument was not even there (although it is - 1 Pet. 1:20-21). Likewise, in the gospel as "the power" of God unto salvation, it is God speaking effectually to the elect as a CREATIVE word of command so that we are "his workmanship CREATED in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:10). Hence the gospel when empowered by the Spirit of God becomes a CREATIVE word that effectually calls the elect of darkness into light and effectual creates a NEW heart, which IS a willing and believing heart (Rom. 10:8).

 

just was saying that there are some here who seem to feel that the Gospel by being heard, apart from working of the Holy Spirit, allows dead sinners to come alive again and then be able to freely respond to Christ!

 

You do not understand the question. I am asking if a person can be regenerated before faith. Some Calvinists (such as R.C. Sproul) teach that a person can be regenerated for years before they believe on Christ. The problem is, we are justified by faith. Until you place faith in Christ you are still dead in all your trespasses and sins. Your sins are not forgiven until you believe. So how could a person be spiritually alive before faith?

You are correct, I do not like your answer. It is not logical. Logically, faith must precede regeneration, because no one's sins are forgiven until they believe. You must believe and have your sins removed before you can possibly be spiritually alive.

Even if you say faith and regeneration occur at the same moment (I would agree with this), faith MUST precede regeneration. No one can be spiritually alive until their sins are first forgiven. Impossible.

And you cannot have a new heart and attitude toward God until you first believe. If you believe God is your enemy, you cannot be friends with God, you cannot be reconciled to him. Only after you first believe that God loves you and gave his Son for you can your heart attitude toward God be changed.

Let's say you are fighting with someone. You believe they hate you. You cannot be reconciled to them while you believe this. But one day they apologize and offer a hand of friendship. You now believe they do not hate you and want to be your friend. Only now is your attitude toward them changed and you can be reconciled. Faith must precede reconciliation.

 

'Man can will himself to believe'? :laugh:

Um... "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy." Romans 9:16.

So man does this, and 'voila' heaven is his as a reward for willing himself to believe?

Yes, we see, salvation becomes a reward, not a gift, as in when the dog rolls over and I give him a snausage.

Just more false teaching and baloney from Moriah. Shamefully some 'Baptists' also believe this nonsense.

 

Actually, I would speak to you in the same manner publicly. Look me up if you want proof since you're puffing out your chest over it.

That you call this (telling the truth about you) unChristian is showing your lack of understanding of truth. Look up Luke 11 verse '30-ish' or something. Use the cross references as well.

Some have used the proper adjectives describing you in this thread. We're not apologizing that telling the truth towards another (in this case about you) isn't in vogue with you moriah.

By the way, no man wills himself to believe then gets 'rewarded' eternal life. Salvation is a gift, and your comment that a man can will himself into heaven is simply more of your false teachings.

:wavey:

 

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You are correct that one must logical have their sins remitted and righteousness imputed logical before they can obtain be alive before God.

However, I believe there is a difference between IMPARTED eternal life versus IMPUTED eternal life. The first is regenation while the second is justification. The first is SPIRITUAL while the second is LEGAL and POSITIONAL before God.

Hence, regeneration = spiritual imparted life logically precedes spiritual activites (repentance and faith) the preprequisits to justification or eternal life by LEGAL delclaration. New birth produces spiritual "children" (Gr. Tekna) while justification produces legal heirs or "sons" (Gr. huioi").

From the human perspective The change of atttitude toward God is called repentance and faith - turning from sin to righteousness by faith in Christ. From the Divine perspective the change of attitude toward God is God giving a new heart - regeneration.

 

problem her is that mankind are born spiritually dead to God, resulting in seperation, and cannot come back to Him unless he gets enabled too by the Lord!

 

Just teaching the Bible!

We are sinners, who are spiritual dead and blind, and God enables us to be even able to be saved!

faith in Christ required, and ONLY happens when God quickens us to be in a state to do such!

 

But many Calvinists do, and it is error. You cannot be regenerated or spiritually alive until your sins are removed, and your sins are not forgiven until you first believe. Therefore faith must precede regeneration. All scripture supports this, while you do not have a single verse of scripture to support your view.

No man is born knowing the gospel, so yes man does not have it within himself to be saved naturally. Man must hear the word of God and be taught that he is a sinner. He must be convicted by the word of God. Man must be taught by the word of God that Jesus is the Son of God who died for his sins and rose again. Man must be taught by the word of God that if he places his faith in Jesus he will be saved.

But God does not beliieve for you, you must either accept God's word and believe it, or reject it. All men have the ability to accept or reject truth, but no man could believe on Jesus unless he has heard of him. So the preaching of God's word enables all men who hear it to believe, but some choose not to believe.

This is Calvinist nonsense. If you are not dead in your sins then you have no need to come to Christ and believe, you are already spiritually alive. Absurd.

You do not have one verse of scripture to support this. I challenge you to show even one verse that says we are born spiritually dead. You can't do it.

The scriptures say man is made upright (Ecc 7:29), but that all men go astray and become lost. Paul said he was alive once without the law. This is impossible in the Calvinist view. Jesus said the prodigal son was alive again when he returned to his father, this is impossible in the Calvinist view. Peter said believers are now returned to the Bishop and Shepherd of our souls, this is impossible in the Calvinist view.

There are many scriptures that refute your view, but you do not have a single verse that supports it.

Show it.