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What happens first?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006.

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  1. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    ...the first effect of the power of God in the heart in regeneration is to give the heart a Divine taste or sense; to cause it to have a relish of the loveliness and sweetness of the supreme excellency of the Divine nature. - Jonathan Edwards

    That is first. What occurs next?
     
    #1 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Faith:
    Baptist
    Logically? conviction, repentance, faith, joy, love?

    Reality: God doesn't have to move on each person in the exact same way every time, nor must every person respond in the same way to the Holy Spirit in some sort of "spiritual order" of salvation.

    byw; I really like Edwards

    peace to you:praise:
     
    #2 canadyjd, Jun 14, 2006
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    It is not first. Why do you all always conveniently leave out "faith"?

    1 Peter, chapter 1
    "5": Who are kept by the power of God through "faith" unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    Romans, chapter 1
    "16": For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to "every one that believeth;" to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    1 Corinthians, chapter 2
    "5": That "your faith" should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    Faith is first, believing is first.( I guess that tells you what I think, it does not seem that Edwards left it out but I don't have the whole context).
     
    #3 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2006
  4. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Are you really saying that faith is "the first effect of the power of God in the heart in regeneration"? Why Brother Bob, I'm so happy for you.

    :applause:
     
    #4 whatever, Jun 14, 2006
  5. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    Begging your pardon!

    Actually and until God touches your heart you cannot believe anything spiritual pertaining to Him, not one iota!
    No one can(thats ability) come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day(certainty of perseverance)John 6:44

    Faith is a gift from God to His own which allows them to believe and repent of sin! Unless He grants it, it doesnt take place!
     
    #5 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  6. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    again...

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"We are dependent on God, not only for redemption itself but for our faith in the Redeemer; not only for the gift of His Son but for the Holy Ghost for our conversion." [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]


    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- JONATHAN EDWARDS in a public lecture in Boston July 8, 1731 [/FONT]​
     
    #6 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  7. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    and again

    Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man."
    - C.H. Spurgeon from His sermon Faith and Regeneration

    Please discover the wealth of sound doctrine and writing at www.monergism.com look up 'Regeneration' in the rolling index at left.
     
    #7 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  8. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    and again

    edited/duplicate post.
     
    #8 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    False!!!

    Here is faith before the virture from the Lord. You would agree she was not saved or anything until she got the virtue would you not? This is just one of many.

    Mark, chapter 5
    25": And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,

    "26": And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

    "27": When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

    "28": For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

    "29": And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
  10. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Once the spirit/heart is awakened in the new birth, the conscience/mind must be awakened by the gospel, which brings faith and repentance. After that comes walking in obedience in sanctification. While the awakening of the spirit (regeneration) must precede the awakening of the mind (faith), they are often so near that for practical purposes they are simultanious. Some, such as myself, believe that the two awakenings can be quite some time apart.

    By "mind" I mean the knowledgable mind. When those that are regenerated hear the gospel, it causes an awakening which we are consciously knowledgable of. That knowledge brings newness to our lives, affecting our thoughts and behaviour. We speak of people "knowing" that they are saved. This is what the gospel does for the regenerate - it causes us to KNOW that we are saved, because we know whom we have believed, and are pursuaded that he is able to keep that which we've committed unto him against that day.
     
    #10 J.D., Jun 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2006
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Answer my post of the woman with the issue of blood. Did she have enough faith to believe she would be made whole if she could only touch the hem of Jesus's garment?
     
    #11 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
  12. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    1 Cor 2:14,15

    But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightely judged by no one.
     
    #12 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Simply saying you can’t worship God in the flesh but must be in the Spirit.

    John, chapter 4
    "24": God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Also saying the carnal mind is not subject to the laws of God and neither indeed can be.

    Not saying anything about having faith inwardly and whosoever you lend your members to you are the servant thereof.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
  14. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    the woman

    You could be right. That wouldnt be hard for me at all! I've been known to wrong many times in my life.

    However, I do know that Jesus said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him"

    I'll stick with that while I ponder whether Jesus caused the woman to come to himself as others also did for his own purpose of showing his miracles. He used many people and ways to effect his purposes.

    John 6:44 remains in my bible and my heart!
     
    #14 2BHizown, Jun 14, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Most of the Calvinist I know preach a "Hope".

    Matthew, chapter 24

    "14": And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    So does this mean the whole world will be saved then?
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2006
  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    All of the elect will be saved without exception.
     
    #16 J.D., Jun 14, 2006
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Was the woman with the issue of blood the "elect"? If so, how did she get faith before virtue?
     
    #17 Brother Bob, Jun 14, 2006
  18. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    I believe that the proper understanding of the verse is best understood when considering:

    John 12:32
    32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
    (NIV)
     
    #18 Terry_Herrington, Jun 15, 2006
  19. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    1. Brobob, only the elect have saving faith.

    2. Terry, if all men without exception are drawn to Christ, I know a few people I'd like for you to witness to. And than tell me that all men without exception are drawn to Christ.
     
    #19 J.D., Jun 15, 2006
  20. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    It appears that you favor Calvin over Christ. I will continue to reject your man-made lies in favor of what Jesus Christ said.
     
    #20 Terry_Herrington, Jun 15, 2006
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