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What if the War Between the States...

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Salty, May 9, 2005.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club

    Apr 8, 2003
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    What if the War between the States was won by the South. Would we then have two second rate nations? Would there have been a Spanish Americian War, Would the outcome of WWI been different. Would the North have fought with the Germans in WW II. What laws would not have been passed in either county, ie Article XIV (Income Tax amendment. Which country would Tennesee ended up in. Would Texas have reverted back to an Independent Republic? :confused:
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Jul 4, 2004
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    This is what I think...

    2 Mediocre nations with average influence

    -- initially some new clout in the CSA, but due to the inefficient government system and its dependency on agriculture (and its diminished, war-damaged capacity), it would lose power rapidly.

    -- the economies of both nations would have been less prosperous due to the lack of cooperation/free trade between the two nations

    --USA has strong industry, but must depend heavily on imports for agricultural products

    --CSA has devastated landscape due to most of the battles being fought in the South, so agriculture suffers. Also, lack of industrial capacity limits growth.

    Spanish-American war?

    Probably not because the USA's influence would not be as prominent. Even if an incident similar to the USS Maine incident occurred, North sentiment would probably lean toward peacemaking because the demoralizing loss in the Civil war would have tempered or completely eliminated any jingoism.

    WWI, or "the Great War"--would have occurred
    --The result would have differed. Without the influence of the USA (because of a latent national inferiority complex left over from the war as well as a lack of military capacity), the USA would have remained uninvolved.
    --No Zimmermann note --the USA would have not owned that region.
    --CSA by this time is nearly irrelevant. Texas may have reverted to being its own nation and may have had strained relations with Mexico. Either way, the CSA would not be strong or influential enough to become involved in WWI.

    --WWI fights to a stalemate because of the lack of US intervention-- No Treaty of Versailles, no League of Nations

    WWII never occurs, at least not in the same fashion.

    Germany would have never had to deal with sanctions, so its economy would not have collapsed, preventing the rise of National Socialism.

    Europe remains divided in a Cold War state with possible flare-ups at times.

    The USSR never gains control of Eastern Europe, so communism is not as widespread.

    From here...who knows?

    To the Asian theater...

    Japan conquers most of the Pacific, and all of SE Asia and China. Japan does not need to attack Pearl Harbor because it would most likely not be an American Territory, and America would have little influence in the Pacific. Japan's quest for power and oil remains uninhibited.

    Beyond this, I have no real room to speculate.
  3. blackbird

    blackbird Administrator

    Feb 21, 2002
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    So---what you're saying, StefanM is this:

    If the CSA would have won---the world would have been a "kinder, gentler" nation---a "Point of a Thousand Lights---the world would be a better place to live in?????

    "OW!!!" As part of the "Boys in Grey"-----the South's gonna do it again!!!!!! May you and your loved ones be the first to rise to the new "inscription"---soon you will be wearin' "Field Gray" uniform---totein' a .45cal blackpowder rifle!!!!
  4. Stratiotes

    Stratiotes New Member

    Jul 6, 2004
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    Read Harry Turtledove's series of books on that very subject and find out ;) .

    One thing I particularly liked in his books (based on some actual correspondence between Lincoln and Karl Marx) is that Lincoln becomes an outspoken socialist - the Eugene Debs of his day.