What is a "feminist'?

Thankful, I'd leave that for each couple to decide.

I was thinking of the husband being the HEAD of the family UNIT.

On that note I think a married woman keeping her maiden name is rebellion.

It seems you're trying to get me to admit to saying something I never said. I never said married women shouldn't vote--I was merely pointing out what problems COULD arise. I was tossing out something to think about.

A woman SHOULD have skills in case something happens to her husband--then she could work and support her children.

 

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

there's no problem taking this verse literally. the question is, saved from what? this verse seems to be referring back to genesis:

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

my interpretation is that "saved" means not saved from condemnation to hell, but saved from her own flesh in the process of sanctification. as i'm sure all mothers here know, submission in marriage and childrearing can bring joy, but they can also bring much trouble and sorrow. god uses that trouble and sorrow in the life of the lady believer to help conform her to the image of christ.

in the same way for men:

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

god has designed the suffering involved in work and the necessity of providing a living as a means to help in the santification of male believers.

 

Betty, I had one young woman tell me that 1 Timothy verse means that if a woman is godly enough she won't have labor pains! We ended up banning her from our Moms site because when women posted about labor, she'd tell them they must have unrepented sin or not be a Christian!

Diane

 

Why would anyone think this is "rebellion". Many women establish themselves professionally under their own name prior to marriage. They have a "brand equity", to use a marketing term, in their own name.

Plus, that should be every woman's decision. It is her identity. Doesn't make her any less committed to her marriage.

 

On that note I think a married woman keeping her maiden name is rebellion.
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Why would anyone think this is "rebellion". Many women establish themselves professionally under their own name prior to marriage. They have a "brand equity", to use a marketing term, in their own name.

Plus, that should be every woman's decision. It is her identity. Doesn't make her any less committed to her marriage.
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I agree.
A name does not a "person" make.

 

depends on her husband's wishes. as far as marriage goes, i do think things would generally work out better if parents arranged marriages, with both parties still having the final say. widows, without estate, should be provided for by her children or the church, as outlined in 1Timothy.

i don't think a married woman should own property independetly of her husband, they should hold all things in common.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]Thank you CFB for sharing that. I ahve read that she was an atheist before. Sad when so many Christians hold her in high esteem.

 

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

there's no problem taking this verse literally. the question is, saved from what? this verse seems to be referring back to genesis:

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

my interpretation is that "saved" means not saved from condemnation to hell, but saved from her own flesh in the process of sanctification. as i'm sure all mothers here know, submission in marriage and childrearing can bring joy, but they can also bring much trouble and sorrow. god uses that trouble and sorrow in the life of the lady believer to help conform her to the image of christ.

in the same way for men:

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

god has designed the suffering involved in work and the necessity of providing a living as a means to help in the santification of male believers. </font>[/QUOTE]I think this is the crux of the matter. Many feminists teach that we are to hate the bearing of children and that we ought to instead take on men's curse.

I say no thank you, I do not want men's curse.

 

Why would anyone think this is "rebellion". Many women establish themselves professionally under their own name prior to marriage. They have a "brand equity", to use a marketing term, in their own name.

Plus, that should be every woman's decision. It is her identity. Doesn't make her any less committed to her marriage. </font>[/QUOTE]How would you feel if your wife did this to you?

And for me personally I enjoy writing my name down as Mrs. (Husbands first) (Husbands last).

 

depends on her husband's wishes. as far as marriage goes, i do think things would generally work out better if parents arranged marriages, with both parties still having the final say. widows, without estate, should be provided for by her children or the church, as outlined in 1Timothy.

i don't think a married woman should own property independetly of her husband, they should hold all things in common. </font>[/QUOTE]We plan to be havily involved in the marriages of our children. My husband is very protective of his daughters. Everytime I ask him how we are to approach marriage with them he says there is nothing to talk about

I agree it is easy for a woman to become too independent. I had to learn that the hard way.

My first Titus two woman came up to me and told me I was too independent. She told me my husband did not like that. At first I was shocked, now I am thankful that she told me.

 

HCL, if you enjoy it, I support you 100%. I believe every person has the right to be addressed by whatever name they prefer.

As to how I would feel if my wife used her maiden name, I would have zero issues with it. It was her name when I fell in love with her, and I would not have had a problem with her keeping it.

As we have been married almost 30 years, and she took my last name back then, she has more years with my surname than her maiden name. However, if she were to decide to start using it again, I'd say "fine with me". One thing she has never used was the form of "Mrs. Myname ColoradoFB", but has always used "Hername ColoradoFB".

For a woman to keep her maiden name can also be a way of honoring her own father. Doesn't mean the father is being placed above the husband, but it can be a nice thing to do.

 

Colorado, my husband had to fill out some papers when we were first married (bank papers or Army papers??) and put me down as Diane E. Tavegia and it stuck. I've never used his name either. Oh for a joke, I once went to his reunion wearing a name tag that said "Jim's wife". Jim was very popular in high school so it seemed to fit. PLUS, everyone asked and then remembered my name! LOL

Diane

 

HCL said:

Your children are very young still, aren't they? Those of us with grown children know how near impossible this is going to be! Pray my friend! Pray!

Diane

 

Diane,
For my oldest I started praying when this child was born and I have done so with all of them. I continue to pray for their prospective spouses. And, yes none of them are marrying age, yet.

 

Involved in their marriage how?

 

Dear Thankful,
Your list of questions reminds me of several things. As you know, I am sure, there are several groups of Mennonites and Amish in OK and KS. Each of those groups has many sub-groups that will fellowship or not with each other over what I would consider very minute issues.

Some, for example, consider zippers more worldly than buttons. Some just use hooks and eyes.
Some use cars, some only buggies. Some have buggies but will occasionally ride in a car. And on and on it goes with infinite variations.

I am sure there are many groups that would not associate with ANYONE on this thread, considering them compromisers on something.

Nationwide there are a number of "neo-Amish" online who oppose everything in your list. Many have followings they would not have without the internet. I have come across a number of sites that indeed advocate ideas such as the woman not physically leaving home to go to the store without her husband or sons accompanying her to "protect" her. Some sites advocate home-birth for the reason that it gives the husband his "proper authority" over his wife instead of some doctor in a delivery room telling them what to do.

I still maintain, that by the same methods of interpretation, it is wrong for a man to work in an air-conditioned office. After all, Genesis refers to the sweat of his brow.

Karen