What is a General Baptist?

[Amy.G]

I believe that the offer of salvation is genuine but until the bonds of sin are removed, we will continue to be unwilling.

Why didn't He remove the bonds of sin? He said "I wanted", yet He didn't get what He wanted because they were unwilling. If He wanted to gather them, why didn't He move them to come to Him?
It seems as though He was willing to give up what He wanted in order to allow them to make their own choice.

 

[TCGreek]

Why didn't He remove the bonds of sin? He said "I wanted", yet He didn't get what He wanted because they were unwilling. If He wanted to gather them, why didn't He move them to come to Him?
It seems as though He was willing to give up what He wanted in order to allow them to make their own choice.

1. Amy, I do not believe in what is commonly called "free will." Rather, I think it should best be described as human responsibility. Man is not free to do anything he desires.

2. I believe God loves all of humanity and takes no delight in the death of the wicked (Eze 18:32; 33:11).

3. But God has chosen to display his electing love on some, for reasons we would never know.

4. Therefore, I see Matt. 23:37 as a "wanted" of disposition and not decretive. Were it decretive, then everyone whom the Father has given to the Son will come (John 6:37).

 

[TCGreek]

Here's another hard-saying: "I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked" (Eze 33:11). But in another place we read, "God does whatever he pleases (Psa 115:3).

1. How is it that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked? But whatever He pleases He does?

2. Then we should all embrace universalism, but Scripture will not allow to do so.

 

[Amy.G]

1. Amy, I do not believe in what is commonly called "free will." Rather, I think it should best be described as human responsibility. Man is not free to do anything he desires.

True

2. I believe God loves all of humanity and takes not delight in the death of the wicked (Eze 18:32; 33:11).

Agree

3. But God has chosen to display his electing love on some, for reasons we would never know.

Thinking about that.

4. Therefore, I see Matt. 23:37 as a "wanted" of disposition and not decretive. Were it decretive, then everyone whom the Father has given to the Son will come (John 6:37).

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[TCGreek]

True


Agree

Thinking about that.

I'm not sure what you mean.

1. If the "wanted" of Matt. 23:37 were decretive, something that God decreed to happen, then they would have come.

2. But everyone whom the Father has given to the Son comes without exception (John 6:37).

3. Therefore, though genuine, it was not decretive but dispositional, so they were unwilling.

 

[Amy.G]

1. If the "wanted" of Matt. 23:37 were decretive, something that God decreed to happen, then they would have come.

2. But everyone whom the Father has given to the Son comes without exception (John 6:37).

3. Therefore, though genuine, it was not decretive but dispositional, so they were unwilling.

Maybe I'm just dense, but surely if God wants something to happen, it will happen.
It doesn't make sense to me for God to say "I wanted you to come, but I didn't elect you, so therefore you are unwilling".

Why would He want them to come, but not enable them to do so?

What am I missing?

 

[TCGreek]

Maybe I'm just dense, but surely if God wants something to happen, it will happen.

1. How far are you willing to take this statement?

It doesn't make sense to me for God to say "I wanted you to come, but I didn't elect you, so therefore you are unwilling".

2. God geniunely cares for all of humanity, but He has set His electing love only on some, for reasons we will never know. Beyond this explanation, I know of no other. Maybe someone else might be able to help you along.

Why would He want them to come, but not enable them to do so?

What am I missing?

3. Then there would be no hell, if God enable all of humanity to come to Him. Once enable by God, there's a 100% guarantee of coming to Jesus for salvation (John 6:37, 44, 45, 65).

4. Furthermore, it is not a matter of God's power, but rather His will.

 

[Amy.G]

1. How far are you willing to take this statement?



2. God geniunely cares for all of humanity, but He has set His electing love only on some, for reasons we will never know. Beyond this explanation, I know of no other. Maybe someone else might be able to help you along.



3. Then there would be no hell, if God enable all of humanity to come to Him. Once enable by God, there's a 100% guarantee of coming to Jesus for salvation (John 6:37, 44, 45, 65).

4. Furthermore, it is not a matter of God's power, but rather His will.

Thanks TC. I'm not trying to argue or be difficult. I genuinely have trouble understanding Calvinism. But I appreciate your honesty. You are right that there are many things that we can't understand.

I seem to be caught in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism. (I think) :laugh: But I would like to learn more.

 

[menageriekeeper]

3. Then there would be no hell,

Pardon me for interupting with a wild hare, but this caught my eye. Without looking it up, I remember the scripture saying somewhere that Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels. How then can you say there would be no hell?

Okay, back to your regularly schedule C/A arguement.

 

[TCGreek]

Thanks TC. I'm not trying to argue or be difficult. I genuinely have trouble understanding Calvinism. But I appreciate your honesty. You are right that there are many things that we can't understand.

I seem to be caught in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism. (I think) :laugh: But I would like to learn more.

I know that you are not being contentious. :thumbs:
1. Amy, I too have some unresolved issues, but the more I read the Scripture, the more and more I embrace the Doctrines of grace or Calvinism.

2. I know there are some who believe that it is a copout to say that there mysteries in the Bible. But I'm not moved. I do believe that there are difficulties in the Bible that we may never resolved (2 Pet 3:16).

3. Continue your search, my dear sister, I too was once where you are now.

 

[Amy.G]

Pardon me for interupting with a wild hare, but this caught my eye. Without looking it up, I remember the scripture saying somewhere that Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels. How then can you say there would be no hell?

Okay, back to your regularly schedule C/A arguement.

We're NOT arguing MK! :laugh:

We are both being very nice.

 

[TCGreek]

Pardon me for interupting with a wild hare, but this caught my eye. Without looking it up, I remember the scripture saying somewhere that Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels. How then can you say there would be no hell?

Okay, back to your regularly schedule C/A arguement.

You're right, that is another interesting debate.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I'll start a separate thread. I'm going to quote you from this one.