What is sin?

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8). This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-Calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

This i believe to be true
It is called a mystery, a Paradox one which MAN will never figure out or understand, no matter how hard they try. so why bother?

 

But the sins are predestined. They will occur. So now you say that something can be predestined and still be wrong? Good. That's progress.

So we agree on this. So please stop acting like we don't agree.

Some choices aren't easy, but they are still choices.

Is being a passenger in a car whose driver runs a red light a sin? I'm not sure what 'blame' has to do with anything here.

No you don't. "If God predestines me to sin, that is causing me to sin, for I have no other option." Those are your words. God predestined Christ's death at the hands of those who killed Him, but God did not cause them to kill Him.

 

Better example: A doctor sees a nurse with a syringe full of poison. He sees her walking toward a patient who is waiting for an injection. He has the authority to stop her, and he is strong enough to stop her, and yet he makes no movement at all. He simply watches her inject the patient, who dies from the injection. Is he responsible for the patient's death?

 

I thought calvinism wasn't "hyper", yet all conclusions lead down that road

 

I thought calvinism wasn't "hyper", yet all conclusions lead down that road
</font>[/QUOTE]You didn't quote all of what I said. Nevertheless, I can provide scripture references that prove the above. Are you going to argue with God now?

 

I'm arguing with you, not God. You cannot provied Scipture stating God is the author of sin. This is heresy.

 

Okay, first you need to quote me as saying God is the author of sin, and then I'll provide the scriptural support for it.

Watch your accusations - someone may actually expect you to provide evidence for them.

 

amen, Helen.

 

144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel to be exact for those that take the Bible literally.

"A" list party no doubt.

 

Those 144,000 are sealed after the rapture of the saints to go through the tribulations that are to come upon the earth.

 

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8). This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-Calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.

This i believe to be true
It is called a mystery, a Paradox one which MAN will never figure out or understand, no matter how hard they try. so why bother?

 

I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake, sometimes. At least, there often seems to be a line waiting to tell me that (and most without my even asking for their opinion on the subject, no less) , but help me out, anyway, please. Exactly how is it again, you magically get from "a biblical definition of exactly what sin is" to "who are those 144,000"? And in only two pages??
In His grace,
Ed

 

No it's not. You are still confusing determinism with cause. Your inability to properly categorize these things does not disprove Calvinism.

 

No it's not. You are still confusing determinism with cause. Your inability to properly categorize these things does not disprove Calvinism. </font>[/QUOTE]How can you package "properly categorize things" in a "Sovereign will" box???


I think you'd have more luck given "JUMBO" a ride in a little red "Radio-flyer wagon".