What is the Bible?

The problem is that you assume that the bible is the word of God. That certain books are included in the bible was a human decision. A group of men decided on that. So you are taking their "word" for it that it is the word of God.
There is alot we don't know about the bible. It may feel good and comforting to say that the bible is God's word. It makes you feel good to have that "certainty". The problem is, its a false certainty to ignore how it was a human decision to include(and exclude) what is in the bible to begin with.

 

The Bible is Gods word. The same today as yesterday. It never changes. It is not covered up with complicated words or ideas. Gods word applies even to the simpliest form so that all men will call on His name. Anything more than Gods word is wrong.

While on Patmos John wrote inspired and according to what The Lord told him to write. Not according to a campfire story told. It was wrote with sheer humbleness from John and pure love from God.

God gave His Son Jesus Christ all the Authority and Power to come and save a world of people from destruction. Jesus walked in the flesh a servant to saving man and overcoming death. He shed His blood so you and me and Moses could live. He said He was going to His Father to prepare a place for you and Moses and me. For all that believed. He said the Hope was that He would come back! Now if it were not for Gods word in that book called the Bible you and me would never know. Praise the Lord he gave John the words to write. And Moses. And all those that write an account of our Wonderful and Beautiful and Glorious God and His word!

In the begining was the word. And the word was God.

He is the Beginning and the End. The Alpha and the Omega.

 

and the Word was (is) God. But John was talking about Jesus, the "word" made flesh.

 

David said:
The problem is that you assume that the bible is the word of God. That certain books are included in the bible was a human decision. A group of men decided on that. So you are taking their "word" for it that it is the word of God.

Preach says:
David, the issue itself is not about certainty. Jesus said He was the truth (John 14). He said the Scripture is truth (John 17). We just believe that we CAN know the truth. We aren't ashamed when it is discovered either. Oh, and we don't say that we don't know if it can be reconciled with our faith first. We conform our faith to truth.

By the way, how about getting a book from a conservative source in regards to Canonization so at least you sound intelligent when you speak of the issue. The Mercer Bible handbook and Samford's guide to Christian history just don't cut it if you want truth.

 

Never heard of either book you're referring to. Maybe I don't sound intelligent because I'm not as smart as you. . I haven't seen any reputable work that says that someone other than human beings decided what was included in the canon. If you know of any source that states that God played an direct and active role in the canonization process I'll be happy to read it.

 

If it doesn't change, why aren't we still following OT ceremonial law? If God doesn't change his mind, why did he promise never to kill the people of the earth again (Noah's flood)? No, you have misunderstood scripture; it means the attributes of God doesn't change. But of course God can change anything he wants...he's God. You have also wrongly assumed that if God doesn't change, then scripture must not change. Which is also wrong. Just look at the Bible at different times through history. So yes, it changes. Also look at Doctrine that changes over time. If a required attribute of "living" is that it changes, then for the Bible to be the living Word of God, it means that the Bible changes unless we are talking about only Jesus as the Word or God. Which would also reconfirm that God does change.

The Bible you are promoting is a Dead Bible. Written in concrete and can't be understood in different light as time changes.

If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion, we would all agree to what it says and means. How many meanings does the word Hell have? Why is Hell compared to the Sea as containing the dead? No, it isn't so black and white. And that is just one word.

[ August 20, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Hey, Joshua:

I would like you to elaborate on how you teach without letting them know your feelings about the bible not being divnely inspired and that much of the Bible was just fairy tales by humans with no guidance(inspiration) from God. It is very hard for me to even believe a liberal who doesn't believe the entire Bible as fact, can call himself/herself, a Christian. Maybe you can tell us how you can and since there are so many parts that are just human input, how do y'all(south), ever even stay on the same line?

God Bless.............Alex

 

So, from what I read in some of the above Liberal posts is that there are many, many MAINSTREAM scolars who are "camping out" in Villines' side of the gulf!!

I am aware of and read many Bible scolars--John MacAuthor, John Phillips, Warren Weirsbe, A B Simpson, A T Robertson, Sam Gordan, Stephen Olford--just to name a few--these fellas are conservative to the core--and never do they even hint as to "camping out" with Villines!!

Conservative Southern Baptist Seminary Presidents would have a problem "pitching their tents" with Villines! Paige Patterson, Al Mohler, Ken Hemphill, Chuck Kelley, just to name a few!

The way I figure--Villines' camp has the "incense" burning and many of the folks around are inhaling deeeeeepppppp!!

 

So what does God-breathed mean to you and what else could it mean? It still means inspired to me since no where in the Bible does it say the terms being bantered around on this thread consisting of "the Bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God". Please could someone tell me where this implication is found in the Bible, I only found "inspired". I believe the words "inerrant and infallible" are man made tradition which Mark warned us against following so please show us where the implication or deductive argument exists that we should hold these teachings and Bible attributes to be true.

And why didn't it say "God spoken" instead of "God-Breathed or inspired", this could be easier to agree upon if the proper words were used. Do you think the author wanted us to be confused? Was this just an oversight on his part, or on God's part if every word was God spoken?

Now you are equivocating. Which is it? Is God just the "source" or did God dictate the Words in the Bible? As a source, it could be implied that the Bible contains error, if dictated by God, there is no errors.

Not true, having the attributes of all-powerful, he can make mistakes if he so chooses. The proper way to make this statement is that "God doesn't have to make any mistakes." but if he wants to he could. We must be careful about putting limits on God. God knows no limits, unless he wants to.

By giving man free choice, God must "stay out" of many things now.

We don't know how much God has to stay out of information that he parts to man because of original sin. This is why a baby will die a horrible death and we can't understand God allowing it to happen. How can you say this principle isn't taking place to some degree with the Bible? Why were original writings lost? on and on. We are paying the price of original sin and this is part of it. Our hearts hold the answers.

[ August 20, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

The takeover that installed these conservative seminary presidents has ruined the reputation of our seminaries. These presidents do not command the respect from scholars outside of the SBC the way their pre-takeover predecesors did.

[ August 20, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]

 

Post-it:

Joshua may be late getting online so maybe you can shed some light as to how a liberal minister(meaning that some parts of the Bible are not God inspired), can preach any sermon. What does he say...this part may or may not be true so don't take it too seriously? Or does he say. well, we THINK this part is from God? So far, you nor any of the other liberals have said HOW you decide what is true and what is just human flok lore. The way you believe, you could actually become a good Mormon or some other religious group as their theology could be easily accepted as you pick and choose anyway. So what is the point of being a Christian if it is what YOU pick rather than what God has given us as the ONLY truth OR do you believe there are many other religious truths, such as the way American Indians believed?

Do you believe about Noah and the flood with all the animals being on his boat(ship?) What about the story of Jonah....fact or fiction? What about the parting of the sea by Moses...again, fact or fiction?

God Bless..........Alex

[ August 20, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

David, so what? Since when does something have to be popular or even respected to be true? How repected would you be if you said Mohammed was a demon-possessed pedophile? Probably not very. I am more interested in being true to Scripture, and thus God, than the liberals who are more interested in being true to their own misguided feelings and/or their friends.

 

I agree with your view of what the Bible is. I am OK with that. I do take offense at the urban, & seminary educated pieces. Even redneck layfolks from Macon, Ga. ...well you get the idea
Peace
Russell

 

Originally posted by post-it:
As a source, it could be implied that the Bible contains error, if dictated by God, there is no errors.

If the question is, "Does the bible contain errors?" The answer is "yes" These would be "copying errors" Yet, these are far from being classified as "substantial" errors! I am certain that anyone who has studied the bible in the original languages would understand why . We cannot conclude that the message itself has been changed. God is all-powerful, and nothing is impossible with Him. He is able to bring the truth to anyone who is willing to receive it. You do not have to have a high I.Q. or even attend Bible College in order to understand the bible. You do have to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, because He is the one who leads us into all truth.

By giving man free choice, God must "stay out" of many things now.

We don't know how much God has to stay out of information that he parts to man because of original sin. This is why a baby will die a horrible death and we can't understand God allowing it to happen. How can you say this principle isn't taking place to some degree with the Bible? Why were original writings lost? on and on. We are paying the price of original sin and this is part of it. Our hearts hold the answers.

Our hearts deceive us. When we think in human terms, we cannot understand God. When we see Him for who He really is, and His character, we will not have to understand everything with our intellect alone. This is what being "Born-Again" is all about. Nicodemus could not even understand what Jesus was talking about, and he was supposed to be a "Teacher" of the law. Therefore, when we are BornAgain, we can understand the impact of the fall of man, but also understand that because of Jesus, we can once again be reconciled back to the state of what God had planned for mankind. This is through the Holy Spirit. This is restoration. God does this in individuals. The world will not be restored back to that time, but we can be restored. Jesus said that in this world, we will have troubles, but be encouraged, He has overcome the world. This is where our hope is. Not in this world.
Post-it, you have so much inside of you. I just feel like I should encourage you to stop striving within yourself. I am not passing any Judgement on you at all, so please do not read into this, but from what I have read, it seems like you are in a struggle. On one hand it seems you see the truth and embrace it, on the other hand, you are trying to figure it all out. God never intended for us to carry it all. This sounds like such a cliche' but, "Let go, and let God."

I hope you understand that I say that out of a spirit of love, not condemnation.

God Bless You

Naomi


[ August 20, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Naomi ]

 

David,
I'd be interested as to your evidence as to your apparent contention that canonization somehow robs the Bible of its divine source.

 

Brother Joshua:

That was a very short aanswer. To me, it sounds like you are talking in circles as the following from your last post:>>I believe the stories of the Bible to be inspired, just not inerrant or of divine authorship. <<<< What is that supposed to mean? I can be inspired to write a story. You say INSPIRED but but end up with.....Not divine authorship.
So I will ask a simple YES/NO question: Is the Bible from beginning to End inspired by God and thus infallible? If your answer is NO, then which parts are not fact as God would have it? I and others need to know what parts of the bible is not God inspired. In fact, it seems that liberals should rewrite the bible and clean out the parts that aren't from God.

You can't have the cake and eat it too!

God Bless..........Alex

 

THANKS, DHK. A great post! Now maybe they can understand what I was attempting to get across to them.

God Bless...........Alex