What is the "doctrine of providential preservation"?

For everyone:

Thanks for all the replies on this subject! I have been away for a couple of days, and since I had started this subject, much has been 'debated' here as well as discussed.

My intentions were to point out the serious doubts of mine about what "KJV-onlyists" have placed on what they define 'providential preservation of the Bible text'. I call it heresy!
I use my 'infallible' NASB, NIV, NASB, and.... my KJV!

Many thanks to DocCas and Pastork for their discussion on the 'orthodox' beliefs/doctrine of 'providential preservation'. Such precision on this discussion about what we know to be true about the 'doctrine' of providential preservation I hope & pray will help the believer to understand what 'providential preservation' really means. The KJV-onlyists have twisted this doctrine/belief to fit their false beliefs that God has 'preserved' His Word into only one English version of the Bible. Some in this 'movement' will further involve others in this most silly-- but divisive-- of doctrinal errors, and when one understands what the Bible says about itself, then one knows the truth about the Bible! The truth about KJV-onlyism is that it can become a 'cult', and even when the truth is revealed and error is exposed, some who still hold to the KJV0 errors will continue on in believing this heresy.

 

LRL71,

Of course you realize these same words could be used by the KJVO's to describe your position as well.

I want to thank you for this topic. You are obviously an educated man. I appreciate your spirit throughout this debate. We will disagree in this area I'm sure for a long time but there is one thing I would ask that you do for me.

Check out the great soul-winners of the past few centuries; 1700 - 2000 and see which Bible they used. I think you'll find that there is a remarkable connection to "bearing much fruit" with the "Old Black Book" KJV.

Again, nice discussing this issue with you.
God Bless You,
Pastor Bob</font>[/QUOTE]Pastor Bob,

This statement does not 'prove' that using the KJV (or, *only* using the KJV) saves peoples' souls nor should using the argument from experience about great soul-winners of the past be something to prove your point. Only God is the great soul-winner, and He always returns something for preaching His Word-- He never returns anything void. My pastor uses the NIV and sees God using that Bible to see people come to know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. Charles H. Spurgeon, one of my favorite *Calvinist* preachers of the Word used the RV 1881, and John R. Rice also quoted the RV in many pamphlets *favorably*. I could name other 'great soul-winners' from the recent past who do not use the KJV and yet God has given His ministry through these godly men a great blessing. God has honored His Word and through the use of the modern versions and He will not allow His Word to return void. The KJV has been around for almost 400 years, and it will continue to be around to be a blessing. The NIV/NASB has been around for only 30 years, but I believe (and know!) that God is also using this great Bible for His Sovereign purpose.

I could prove absurdity by being absurd in saying that I am NIV-only or NASB-only, and then turn around to use the same arguments you use to 'prove' that the KJV is the "only Word of God". I could argue that the Jehovah Witnesses also regard *only* the KJV to be an authority (in addition to their perverted translation) and make an argument of guilt-by-association. Obviously, I could go on ad infinitem 'railing' the KJV on its 'misgivings', but this is more than being unfair. I cannot understand that you have not seen the errors of KJV-onlyism; I can safely say that you have been 'blissfully ignorant' of the facts against KJV-onlyism.

[ September 15, 2002, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: LRL71 ]

 

Tri Hard!
You beat me to the punch! That was exactly my reply! Thanks for the help.......

God never preserved His Word *into* any Bible version-- whether KJV, NIV, NASB, etc....
If we applied 'preservation' as KJV-onlyists have, then ask which KJV? If we applied 'preservation' as DocCas has defined(and basically myself, although I don't think it is a doctrine), then God has preserved His Word to us through the many extant Hebrew & Greek manuscripts in that we have not lost any of what He wrote in the originals. Either way, God does not 'preserve' His Word *into* any Bible version in any language; this is the doublespeak that KJVO's use to 'justify' their position in that God only preserved His Word *into* the KJV. Where does God say that from the Bible? Perhaps there is some extant manuscript that says, "I hath preserved My Word into the King James Version only", but no, unfortunately, there isn't. When KJVO's *twist* and *inject* their heretical beliefs into the 'biblical' doctrines/beliefs of preservation, then we get KJV-onlyism-- a heretical view of Bibliology.

Again, Pastor Bob 63, where does God say that He specifically "preserves" His Word, and more precisely, where does He say that He will "preserve" it INTO the King James Version of the Bible ONLY? Do you have some special revelation from God, or should we concede that the charismaniacs are right about God still speaking through revelations and tongues today? You cannot honestly answer this question without having your head examined. Your question is valid, in a sense, to ask me if I can 'prove' that God preserved His Word *into* any of the modern versions. I would have to answer "no" to all of them. Then you will say, "aha!"-- then God didn't 'preserve' or 'inspire' His Word into the modern versions! But wait, you will then say that God preserved His Word *only* into the KJV, right? Well, how do you propose that? The Bible, whether KJV or not, does not say that God preserves His Word *into* any version or from any language. See, I am honest enough to know what my Bible says about God's work in preservation of the Bible text. No, He did not preserve it into the KJV, NIV, NASB, or in Swahili! The 'doctrine' (or, teaching) of biblical preservation of the Bible text does not say that God preserves His Word into versions, languages, or manuscripts. He 'preserves' His Word by not allowing any of it to disappear from man-- period. I *know* that this is consistent with the Historic Christian faith passed down through the ages, and the heresies and false teachings of KJV-onlyism will go down to its inevitable destruction, even to the 'trash heap' where they falsely report that Sinaiticus came from! Surely, the Word of the Lord stands forever, but even these verses have been hijacked by KJV-onlyists to serve their perverted purposes. No, God did not preserve His Word into the Modern Versions, but I know that the NIV, NASB, NKJV, and even the venerable KJV has been carefully translated from their respective manuscripts in Hebrew and Greek, and are the very Word of God-- in English. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have all of what God wrote from the originals (despite the fact that the TR-- and the KJV-- had many 'added' verses to it, like 1 John 5:7-8).

Whew! This came from a.....
Independent, Fundamental, Sovereign Grace, Missionary, Pre-Mill/Pre-Trib, NIV/NASB preaching , Calvinist, Predestined by the free will of God's foreknowledge and election, and a sinner saved *only* by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ...... BAPTIST!

Thanks for reading!

[ September 15, 2002, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: LRL71 ]

 

Let me do just that after you tell me why the
KJV1611, perfect in every way,
had to have the spelling corrected
in the 18th century.</font>[/QUOTE]I am laughing so hard right now!