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What is the life of one child worth?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by ajg1959, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Sorry, I vowed to stay off this subject but I wanted to briefly chime in and say I don't think it's a matter of what issues are MORE important, it's a matter of what issues are equally or ALSO important. Based on your post I really don't expect you to comprehend or agree with that statement, I just wanted to express my view.

    It is easy to get so focused on saving one tree where you don't see the risk of the rest of the forest being lost.
     
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    4000 abortions in the US per day hardly seems like 1 tree. :tear:
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Or it is just an excuse
     
  4. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    First of all, there is no reason for a "poor black child" to ever die of lack of adequate health care in this country. Health care is provided free through medicaid to the poor. It is much easier for a poor child to recieve what they need than it is for a working middle class parent to afford what their kids need. Same goes for education, poor kids can get a free education paid for by government grants while working middle class struggle to go to college.

    Non-combantant casualties have been a part of war from the beginning of time. God even ordered the isrealites to kill everyone, even women children and livestock on occasion. However, the major difference between non-combantant deaths in war and abortion is that we dont have laws that make war casualties legal nor do we encourage the general population to engage in it like we do abortion.

    As far as mistakes in our legal system...yes I agree that we need to be abusolutely sure that a person is guilty before we execute them. Years ago a person would never be convicted on circumstantial evidence, there had to be witnesses, motive, oppurtunity and physical evidence, but today we convict folks out of fear instead instead of proof, and this is wrong......but, should we refuse to correct the slaughter of innocent children because we still need to work on our legal system? That is silly.

    Your whole argument seems to suggest that you advocate ignoring the killing of babies as long as there are other injustices in the world. I dont understand your logic here.

    And besides, all of the examples you have given pertain to people that are actually alive and were given a chance to live. Yes, abortion is MORE wrong than these other injustices simply because we are taking these children's oppurtunity at life before they even have a chance to make the mistakes that you mention in your post.

    We dont have laws ordering poor black kids to die of inadequate health care, or ordering the deaths of innocent war casualites, or intentionally executing the wrongly convicted....but we do have laws making it legal to kill innocent children.

    AJ

    BTW, I am part black and I resent your insinuation that black kids are different than white kids...why? A poor child is a poor child, no matter what color they are.
     
  5. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    My point is that I would let the rest of the forest burn to the ground before I would sacrifice even one child to save it.

    I am at a loss as to how to respond to you on this. You are right, I dont comprehend your willingness to sacrifice the unborn for the good of the living.

    If God didnt want these unborn children to live then He wouldnt have created them. Who are you to decide that they should be sacrified for the better good?

    AJ
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    This thread is a false dichotomy. It isn't either you have this or that. But given the construct of the argument, we (as a society) choose many things over one life every day. For example, is our freedom worth the life of even one soldier?
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    But, MP a soldier chooses to be put in harms way.. they are WILLING to be killed for a cause...

    A baby does not choose to be put in harms way.. .they are not WILLING to be killed for a cause...

    This idea that one life should be sacrificed for a whole nation is not new...
    The Pharisees adn corrupt leaders used this same argument in trying to kill Jesus.. right after Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead...
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Understood, but that isn't the point.

    It still gets back to the idea that one issue overrides everything else. As a nation, we must be able to walk and chew gum simultaneously. It isn't "this" or "that". If we cannot multitask, we are done.
     
  9. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    I am not suggeting that we choose one over the other, I am simply responding to the folks that bring up all of these other injustices to explain their support of abortion. (And yes, anyone that either ignores abortion or is willing to compromise it for other issues is in reality supporting it)

    When I was a soldier, it was because I enlisted to serve....it was my choice.

    Have you ever heard of a fetus that chose to die?

    Everyone keeps talking about being "pro-choice" and not pro-abortion......what about the child's choice? What about God's will? God evidently wanted that child to live or He wouldnt have created him. Or do you think that God created those children just so their parents could kill them?

    AJ
     
  10. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Are you saying that killing children is not as important of an issue as the economy? Or the war in iraq?

    I am saying yes....abortion should override everything else. I am not saying that we dont have other issues to deal with, I am saying that I am not willing to sacrifice children's lives for these other issues.

    AJ
     
  11. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    AJ we posted simultaneously, so the first part of your post is answered above. But let me try to answer these things.

    I don't think I have ever met anyone who is "pro-abortion", although I am sure there are some people who are. The thing is, most of the pro-choice folks I have ever been around are only wanting it to remain legal for those circumstances on the tails of the normal curve...that is pregnancy that occurs because of incest or rape, or if the life of the mother is impacted. I would not call that a pro-abortion stance.

    Secondly, let me answer your last question with a question. If you believe every fertilized ova is a person, then why did God create zygotes in fallopian tubes in the case of ectopic pregnancy? Why did God create fetuses that spontaneously abort, even in late term?
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Why was Blagovich impeached?
    He tried to sell a congressional seat.
    He was corrupt....

    No one in their right mind would vote for him now. Even if he could get the US out of this economic crisis... why?
    HE believes what he did was right.. He sees no problem in selling congressional seats...

    Those of us that will not vote for a pro-choice candidate follow the same logic...

    The approval of murder for babies should disqualify anyone from running for office.
    Just as Blagovich was disqualified.
    Which is worse? Killing a baby.. .or selling a congressional seat?

    If a politician would campaign on the premise that he feels mothers should have 24 hours to choose after giving birth whether or not the baby gets to live.. this country would be in an uproar (I would hope)...

    Imagine a law that would give the mother a right to kill her baby within the first 24 hours after giving birth....

    Any politician that would promote such law would NEVER be elected...

    What is the difference in that law and abortion... both are killing the baby... the only difference is in the timing.
     
  13. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Listen to this 12 year old in this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOR1wUqvJS4

    The truth is that very few abortions are the result of rape, incest, or the health of the mother...they are simply for the selfishness of the mother.

    If a 12 year old can figure this out, then why cant adults?

    AJ
     
  14. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    A 12 year old's school speech isn't a source, although it may be factually true. Even so, it still happens. How many is "very few"? When is it a small enough sample not to matter? One percent of a million is ten thousand. Would any of us get on an airplane if one percent of them crashed? That would mean very many plane crashes every day. For example, there are about 50,000 commercial flights worldwide per day. If one percent of them crashed, that would be 500 plane loads of people crashing every single day. One percent sounds small, but it isn't.

    I have stated before, I am against late term abortion, and abortion in lieu of contraception. But we cannot throw out the exceptions.
     
    #34 Magnetic Poles, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2009
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    So you support killing them before they're born so they won't "suffer" while living.

    How charitable of you.:rolleyes:
     
  16. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Open your eyes.

    There are several of them that post on BB.
     
  17. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    I dont think we have the right to "throw out" any life that God created, no matter what the circumstances are.
     
  18. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Would you accept Planned Parenthood's statistic's...

    The Alan Guttmacher Institute (the research arm of Planned Parenthood) states:

    1% are victims of incest or rape
    1% had fetal abnormalities
    4% had a doctor who said their health would worsen if they continued the pregnancy
    50% said they didn't want to be a single parent or they had problems in current relationships
    66% stated they could not afford a child
    75% said the child would interfere with their lives.

    http://eng.christianitydaily.com/advice/advice2.htm



    ONLY 1% are victims of incest or rape....
    And so what? Did the baby do anything to die? Kill the rapist.. he is the guilty one.. not the Baby....

    But most pro-choice people I know.. would defend the rapist's right to live... (against Capital Punishment) and would kill the baby...
     
  19. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    So getting back to an earlier response, why does God "throw out" babies he created through miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy? Also, insisting on no exceptions is why Roe v. Wade will never be overturned. Most people in the US will never accept such a hardline stance. Better to save many than save none through irrational adherence to an all or nothing stance. Many folks would be willing to outlaw most elective abortions, but are not willing to force their daughters and wives to carry to term the offspring of a rapist.
     
  20. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    See my example of 500 airline crashes a day. That is what one percent is.
     
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