What kind of sins does a Pope confess?

[thessalonian]

Sherrie has a point, thessalonian. Rather than belittling and attacking the question, why don't you just answer it?


***Thanks for stopping by Clint. I do appreciate your commentary. My post was not intended as an insult as you claim and as your post came accross to me. I have no problem answering her questions and you will see below that I went all out with her. ****

"Bear in mind that Sherrie has been on this site for 7 months with access to real, live, red-blooded Catholics so when you make the statement, "my suggestion to you is that you stop trying to act like an expert on Catholicism and actually pay attention to what we tell you," it is not Sherrie that sounds foolish.

****Then why is she making the same old worn out straw man statements that have no bearing on what we truly believe except in a distorted sense? Why has her spirit filled wisdom and truth not converted any of these Catholics while I see a few on this board and have seen many more on other board who are headed toward Catholicism? I have not seen in my 5 years on message boards one Catholic who has been persuaded to go to the Protestant side and I have been on many message boards.****

***I wish you peace Clint. Try not to take my posts in an antagonistic way. First of all it is next to impossible for you to interprut tone or anger from written words. My posts are direct and meant to make people think. Stephen got stoned because he was a bit blunt with people. John the Baptist got his head chopped off for the very same thing. So if I come accross as a bit harsh sometimes it is not out of animosity toward there person. In truth from what I have seen out of Sherrie so far, I think if we were neighbors, we would probably like eachother. ****

 

[thessalonian]

Sherrie,

One more thing....

"Do you all ever think he messed around with any of those Nuns. Maybe not now, since he is old, but maybe earlier on in his road to Popehood."

Couple verses for you before you put away those racy romance novels you've been reading.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

Ephesians 5:4
and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.


Blessings

 

[Johnv]

I was just wondering what kind of sins a Pope confesses he makes.
Like my sins and your sins, that's no one's business but the penitent and the Lord.

And who does the Pope confess these sins to?
As all Catholics do: to Jesus Christ.


And if the Pope sins...isn't it possible he might have made a bad choice, or rule, and thats what his sin is? Kind of spooky.
The Pope is a human being, and like all other humans, is capable of sinning. Just like any other religious leader. Catholics know this like anyone else. I don't know why this would be spooky.

Is it ok for a Catholic to say, boy that Pope sure did mess this one up?
I hope so. I hear Catholics say that all the time.

Or, curse that Pope!
No, cursing the pope or anyone is inappropriate for a Christian.

Or, boy I can't wait until we get a better Pope!
I've heard Catholics say this as well.

Or maybe even, Who does that Pope think he is, God? Or who died and left him boss?
Probably.

Do you all ever think he messed around with any of those Nuns.
Why would you think that anymore that Rev Falwell messing around with his office staff?

Maybe not now, since he is old, but maybe earlier on in his road to Popehood. I could say the same about Rev Jerry.

I was also wondering do Catholics ever think the Pope says anything wrong, or do you just go on his say-so?
The words or the Pope are not infallible, and are open to discussion and disagreement. Catholics think he's right and wrong all the time.

 

[WPutnam]

You said:

What could the pope who has this superior connection to God, possibly do that was a sin? And the sins he does....doesn't that make you wonder what, and if they were those things that have brought you where you are today. What if he had purposely been calling the wrong shots, and was repenting of them, Wouldn't you be upset?

My reply here will only approximate your original post, being applicable to this latest message.

First of all infallibility has nothing at all to do with some "superior connection" with God. In other words, the charisma of infallibility, which I think has been adequately replied to, so I do not understand why you fail to comprehend that papal infalliblity applies only to a very narrow circumstance - The definition of doctrines that effects faith and morals. Other then that, for about 99.99% or ordinary things, the pope is as fallible as anyone. And certainly, infallibility does not equate to impeccability, as it has already been explained.

Now, to whom does the pope go to for confession?

Usually another priest!

It is simple as that! And in fact, the pope goes to confession often to receive the very sacrament Christ instituted in John 20:22-23!

Why isn't anyone but a catholic College in 1967 asking questions?

What questions do you want answered? (Not having the previous responses before me as I reply here.)

If someone makes moral decisions for you, why aren't you questioning them? Yes, yes, I know they are decisions for a church. But you go to that church and you live by those rules. Why?

The only person who makes "moral decisions" are YOU, MYSELF AND I! In other words, moral decisions are made by an individual's excercise of a free will of choice, a choice between good and evil.

We may be advised by the pope, your pastor, my pastor my Church, your church about how to made the best decisions morally, but it is YOU who must make the decision.

And what is so wrong with wondering if the Pope is messing around with those nuns? He knew about all those other Bishops, and others in the church, messing around in the church, and did nothing about it. Oh yes, your right, he made up some more moral rules.

The problem is, to Catholic ears, is the immediate jump to a most contemptable act you would so quickly assume the pope does.

But I do see that you are reacting to the oh so eager news media to hit at the most monolithic of Christianity, the Catholic Church, a most tempting a target lately.

Don't you ever want to say what is this Pope guy thinking? Or do you really think this guy is the next guy in line to be Christ?

One, the pope is pretty adept at letting all of us know how he thinks, per his various writings, encyclicals and such. But no, he is not the "next guy in line" to be Christ, as Christ is forever - an individual pope is not! The pope is only Christ's Vicar (a frail human representation of Christ and His Church.) And for all of his papal career, he remains only "second in command" if you will, just like Christ set it up in Matthew 16:18-19 as Christ sets the establishment on the foundation rock of Peter (once called Simon), gives him the "keys of the kingdom" of awesome power and authority (per the Jewish metaphor we see in Isaiah 22:22) and to round it all out, is the first to receive the power to "bind and loose."

Listen to this even; heres an eye opener for you, he has no connections to those dead Apostles. Mary doesn't even hear him.

Shucks! And all this time I thought the apostles were "alive with Christ" in heaven! And as for Mary hearing anyone, check out the the important apparitions of Mary at Guadalupe, Lourdes and Fatima. And oh, by the way, she is "alive in Christ" too, like we all will be when we receive the victory and the rewards of heaven!

If you have something to repent of; God gave His Son Jesus. Jesus died on the cross. Jesus shed His blood for us. Jesus sent His Holy Spirit. Jesus taught us how to pray to the Father. Jesus is our intercessor.

Of Course Christ is our intercessor - in salvation and in the opening of the gates of heaven for all of us.

Yet if you were to ask me to pray for you, am I not an intercessor for you in prayer?

And indeed, we can all call upon the Name of the Lord for forgiveness of our sins, but Christ did something special, with his Sacrament of Reconsiliation per John 20:22-23!

Now I do not pretent to know everything, or anything about Catholics. So would you answer my questions. Then I might be enlightened by it.

Well, I may not have answered too many of them, but as time goes by, I will try. Listen to Carson too; he is a good guy! (And the others here as well, not recalling their names in my "senior years.")

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


"Gloria in excelsis Deo"

(Intoned by the celebrant of the Mass.)

(The choir response.)

Et in terra pax homininus
bone voluntatis
Laudamus te
Benedicimus te
Adoramus te
Glorificamus te,
Gratias agimus tibi propter
magnum gloriam tuum.
Domine Deus, Rex Coelestis,
Deus Pater omnipotens
Domine Fili unigenite
Jesu Christe Domine Deus
Agnus Dei Filius Patris
Qui tollis peccata mundi
miserere nobis.
Qui tollis peccata mundi,
suscipe deprecationem nostram.
Qui sedes ad dexteramPatris,
miserere nobis.
Quoniam tu solus Sanctus,
Tu solus Dominus
Tu solus Altissimus
Jesu Christe.
Cum Sancto Spiritu
in gloria Dei Patris
Amen.

- The Ambrosian Gloria -


http://www.solesmes.com/sons/gloria.ram

(Real monks chanting....)


Gregorian Chant - God's music!

 

[3AngelsMom]

Thessalonians:

My Pastor was born and raised Catholic.

He is now a Seventh Day Adventist Christian.

I was born and raised Catholic.

I am now a Seventh Day Adventist Christian.

My Husband was born and raised Catholic.

He is now a Seventh Day Adventist Christian.

On April 2, 2002 over 500 Hispanic Catholics (in San Diego CA) received Jesus and were baptized and are now Seventh Day Adventist Christians.

Last sumer over 100,000 people left the Catholic, Protestant, and pagan religions in Africa received the Gift of Jesus and were baptized and are now Seventh Day Adventist Christians. 100,000 people!!!! Praise the Lord!

Oct 23, 2002 during the terrorist activities in Moscow (remember the theater with hostages) there were Catholics disregarding the police's warnings not to go into large places in public, and there were 700+ people who came to Christ and were baptized and are now Seventh Day Adventist Christians.

People all over the world are leaving the Roman Catholic Church.

There are many, mind you who are still adherent, no doubt about that. But there are more leaving on a daily basis than are coming in.

I am certain that I am not the only one here that knows someone who has come out of the RCC.

God Bless.

 

[GraceSaves]

If it's numbers you want to argue, the Catholic Church is beating the SDA by a long shot. Of course, numbers don't necessarily equal truth, so it doesn't matter who is winning it, does it.

God bless,

Grant

 

[GraceSaves]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
But there are more leaving on a daily basis than are coming in.

Please, at minimum, provide a statistic.

God bless,

Grant

 

[Bible-belted]

Originally posted by GraceSaves:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
But there are more leaving on a daily basis than are coming in.

Please, at minimum, provide a statistic.

God bless,

Grant </font>[/QUOTE]A couple of years ago there was an issue of "Envision" a publication of World Vision Canada, that showed that The RCC had more people going from it to atheism than evagelicalism. Likewise moe people joined evagelicalism from RCism than left Evangelicalism for RCism. The data is ate least 3 years old now. I think I have the issue on file somewhere. It might even be ont he website. I haven't checked.

If you are really interested, I'll see if I can find it. But only if you are really interested.

 

[Bible-belted]

Oh, btw,

as to the question of Popes and sin, while I easily agree that the doctrine of infallibility, as such, is not afected by papal sin (since it is not a a doctrine of impeccability), but it does get down to a more basic biblical issue; qualifications for the office. Titus, for example, contains some pretty strict moral guidelines. Many many opes have failed that test, whatwith murder, simony, extra marital sex and the like. Such sins should have disqualified them from their office regardless of the question of infallibility.

 

[GraceSaves]

Latreia,

Peter chopped the ear off the guard who tried to take Jesus away. Peter denied that he even know the Lord three times, after telling Jesus he wouldn't. Peter tried to stop Jesus from going to his death, at which Jesus called him Satan. And those are just the instances listed in Scripture.

And yet you trust two books by him to be divinely inspired, and you do not question his apostleship.

Apparently, being a sinner makes you a prime candidate to be a servant of the Lord, as long as you repent of that sin. And since we're talking about Confession, and the Pope makes frequent confession, I don't see how this is an issue.

God bless,

Grant

 

[Carson Weber]

While we're speaking of conversions, might I add that in last year alone, 220 Protestant pastors contacted the Coming Home Network about converting to the Catholic Church:

http://www.chnetwork.org

 

[Johnv]

But there are more leaving on a daily basis than are coming in.

So what? One of the fastest growing churches in the United States is the Mormon Church, and many of their incoming members are former mainline Christians.

 

[Sherrie]

Sorry I took so long to respond, I was not at my computer until now.


Ok then....what are the guidelines for the Pope; when making an infallible standard? How does the Catholic Church interpret infalliblity when the Pope is the one writing the guidelines?


The Catholic Church has already admited they made a mistake about the "Galileo Incident". So now, they just say "we will take the science out of religion, and say the Bible always said this about what is happening in science of today."

So this infallable action by the Pope in church matters wasn't so infallable. Yet the Pope appoints a council of his choice and making, and takes Science out of Religious moral and faithful matters.


Look at this:

http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-church-interpreter.htm

The Church teaches infallibly when it states, through the Pope alone, that he speaks officially (ex-cathedra) as the Supreme head, for the entire universal church.

"In order to speak infallibly, the Pope must speak ex-cathedra, or officially, under the following conditions:
"1. He must pronounce himself on a subject of faith or morals.
"2. He must speak as the Vicar of Christ, in his office as Pope, and to the whole Church, to all the faithful throughout the world. In his capacity as private teacher, he is as any other teacher of the Church.
"3. He must make clear by certain words his intention to speak ex-cathedra, that is, to make use of his supreme authority."

The Catholic officials themselves have made up all of the above "ex-cathedra" conditions.

Isn't this enough for someone somewhere to say "what the Heck is going on here." Why does one man think he is intitled to so much.


I mean, man often fails in his relationship with God. The Pope is not seperate from that statement. This is where my question comes in; shouldn't you be wondering what is he repenting of?

You may laugh and make light of me; but you are not answering my questions. Infalliblity is not scriptual. It was not handed down to anyone. All infallibility is, is an arguement that builds up the Catholic Church, or the Pope. It is also a tool that is actually used againt Gods Word.

Morally and faithfully it is a sin againt the body of Christ and that Universal Church.

Sherrie

 

[GraceSaves]

Sherrie,

Do you honestly think that the Church's dealings with Galileo were a matter of faith and morals, in which the Pope was speaking as universal "pastor," on a matter that is binding and applicable to all Catholics worldwide?

No, he wasn't. This is not an instance where the Pope was infallible, nor does he exercise this rite often at all. His homilies in his masses are not infallible. His encyclicals, though they are very good, and do deal with faith and morals, are not infallible. Very few things, in fact, are infallible, because very few times is he acting as universal pastor, solidifying a belief on matters of faith and morals. There's not a great need to do that very often.

God bless,

Grant

 

[GraceSaves]

Sherrie,

Does God forgive sins? If so, why do you need to know all of my past sins to know if I am a sincere, Christ-loving Christian? If you don't, why do you need to know all of the Pope's transgressions? They may be big. They may be small. That's between him and God. I'm amazed at someone who says you only have to go to God about your sins is wanting to make public all of someone's sins.

God bless,

Grant

 

[thessalonian]

Sherrie,

Before I have any more discussions with you, I want you as a sign of your sincerety to answer to agree to or support rebut the scriptural and logical reasons for rejecting some of your positions from a Catholic perspective. You seem to want to fly off to other topics. So....

First: will you take back your statement that a man who is a sinner cannot speak and write in an infallible manner. If not then rebut my claim that Paul and Peter wrote infallibly and spoke infallibly even though it was quite apparent that they were sinners.

Will you agree to no longer use the worn out arguement about those in heaven that "they cannot hear you" or provide scriptural evidence that shows that they cannot hear us.

Your remark about the Pope with nuns was offensive but I bit my tongue a bit. Please see the post on page two of this thread in which I quote phil 4:8. However I want to make sure you saw my post with scriptural verses saying that we should not speculate on filth but should fill our minds with good. I will conceed that if actual substantiated scandal is found we need to deal with it, but your idea that we should speculate about the Pope and nuns is rude and of the nature of gossip which isn't looked upon too well in scripture. So please retract the comment or substantiate your charges about the Pope.

Blessings

 

[Sherrie]

No,no,no. I don't need to know your sins. What I am saying is according to Catholic Doctrine, the Pope is a Supreme head. You are letting him make decisions for you. He is making decisions yes, for your church, but these decisions do flow over into your everyday life.

Also, before the Pope changed infallible, Science too was infallible in the catholic Church. Once the Pope realized that he had made a mistake, he then changed what infallible will be. Stating that science is according to how the Bible had always said it was. When before it was not. And the church went out of its way to write science.

So see there was a mistake. Even the Catholic Church recognizes this mistake. Aren't you wondering if there could be more mistakes? Aren't you wondering if he is repenting because he is leading you down a creek without a paddle?

No man should have that much authority. Why do you allow one man to be in total control of things. He is head of changing the rules and guidelines. He is head of appointing the council that makes up the rules. Then if he doesn't like that, he can override that. That is too spooky.

He even changes the scripture to fit the Catholic Religion. He is a promoter of the Catholic Religion and offices that it holds, and not God.

Sherrie

 

[WPutnam]

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
While we're speaking of conversions, might I add that in last year alone, 220 Protestant pastors contacted the Coming Home Network about converting to the Catholic Church:

http://www.chnetwork.org

Hi Carson!

Apparently posts are invisible!

Anyway, it is indeed, an interesting phenomenon you speak of. We recently had Scott Hahn down here in Pensacola (Gulf Breeze, FL) and I had the opportunity to hear him!

You lucky guy! You get to get him as a professor in Stubenville!

How do you get your picture to show up in the column of the "handle/name"? I can see in in my profile, but I cannot get it to appear in the message.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)

 

[Johnv]

I think in the entire history of the RCC, there have only been two or three infallible statements. I'm not well versed on them. Perhaps someone else can give more input. Pope John Paul II has never made one.

 

[Sherrie]

"The popes in the Church history have only twice spoken ex cathedra, i.e. making an infallible pronouncement. The first time was by Pope Pius IX when he declared the doctrine of Immaculate Conception, and the second time was by Pope Pius XII to declare the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin."


Sherrie