What matters is keeping the Commandments of God

BobRyan interprets sanctification to include justification. Paul's argument in Romans 7 is that obedience to the law does not justify the unregenerate or sanctify the regenerate.

 

Bob,
You are the one that continues to circle back and back and back again.
The Bible says that for the believer:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (Romans 8:1)

His sins are forgiven: past, present, and future. However, you deny the truth, the validity of this verse, and thus keep circling back. One must take into consideration all of God's Word. If there is no condemnation to the believer, then he can't lose his salvation, and thus the continuation in the commands of Christ is unjustified. We are not justified by continuing in his commands. We are justified by faith (Romans 5:1). We are justified once and only once. We can never loose our standing in justification. Thus keeping his commandments is done out of love, not out of necessity. If we fail in any of his commandments, no one's salvation is at stake. If I never keep the Sabbath, I cannot lose my salvation, for my salvation is by faith. I am justified by faith not of works. If you don't agree with the last couple of statements especially then you have a religion of works, and not of grace through faith.

 

Jesus clearly and explicitly denies that the believer "shall come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life" - Jn. 5:24 - Hence, there is no future judgement of the saint in regard to justification.

The texts that you quote to prove a future justification are simply jerked out of their context. Romans 2 is in the preceding and foregoing context that deals with those who believe themselves to be sufficiently righteous BASED UPON WORKS to pass through the judgment (vv. 1-5; vv. 17-31). Your position is identical to their self-evaluation. You also believe that a person BASED UPON works must stand before God and be justified by their works to enter into heaven. You may call it CERTIFICATION but it is a justification by works nevertheless. Jesus says the believer "shall not come into" that judgement but Bob says we will. I will go with Jesus.

You interpret sanctification BY WORKS to be the essential for future Justification for entrance into heaven (just as those in Mt. 7:21-23 who are rejected by Christ). Hence, you do not believe remission of sins and entrance into heaven and everlasting life is obtained by justification through faith in the Person of Christ and His works or that Christ completely satisfied all the laws demands against the believer. No, instead you believe that justification by faith only puts the believer in the position whereby through his OWN person and his OWN works God helps him to maintain his position and that the believer must satisfy the laws standards in order to pass the judgement and enter heaven.

 

The real distinction between the two opposing views on this forum is in regards to the design and purpose of the life of the believer versus the design and purpose of the life of Christ.

I believe the design and purpose of the life of Christ was to provide by his own life of good works (the righteousness of Christ) and by his own death the complete satisfaction of all the laws demands against the "ungodly" (Rom. 4:5) who receives this gift of grace through faith so that they are justified before God (righteousness imputed) at the point of faith in Christ (no sins shall be imputed (Rom. 4:7-8) so that eternal life by judicial decree is obtained now and heaven is secured now.

I believe the design and purpose of the life of the beleiver is to glorify God and this is obtained solely by the grace of God through the regeneration of the justified and progressive operation of the Indwelling Spirit of God whereby He works in them both to will and to do of His good pleasure to obtain temporal blessings here and now, eternal rewards in heaven and this is through progressively conforming the regenerated man into the image of Christ which is never perfected in this temporal life but is secured solely by God's power and grace in the transformation at the resurrection.

All who are justified by faith are regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit and will be transformed completely into the image of Christ at the resurrection. None of the justified are perfectly transformed here and now and the present process is inclusive of the constant friction between indwelling sin and the renewed inner man, that results in many sins, failure and chastening, battles lost as well as victories won through yeilding to the indwelling Spirit but the outcome of this war is never in question, never at risk even though many skirmishes are lost as our life is never a replacement for the life of Christ in view of justification.

 

GE:


‘Sanctification’ is not that ‘we can try to live rightly’ or that ‘we should just not give up on holiness’

In every instance of the word ‘sanctify’, ‘sanctification’, it is IN CHRIST and SUBSTITUTIONARY no different than ‘justify’, ‘justification’. Sanctification NO different than justification and righteousness, is RECKONED to the saved or reborn.

Justification is pictured as objective and sanctification as subjective righteousness. But in no single occurrence of the concept of sanctification does the believer have sanctity or is he sanctified in his own person or right and not exclusively in Christ and through Christ.

Actually, when one has a look at the texts in which sanctification is mentioned the impression is created that sanctification precedes justification, and does not follow it.

Which in my opinion is in keeping with the basic meaning of sanctification, which is to set apart for a special purpose.

 

This is not found in the context of true believers but in the context of hypocrits who believe they will be justified by their works. Paul simply sets forth the just criteria that God will regard works that are presented for entrance into heaven (Mt. 7:22-23). I see you are among those in Romans 2:6-14 and thus among those in Matthew 7:22-23. In this instance, confession is not good for your soul.

Paul is talking about "the unrighteous" or those never justified before God and whose lives are characterized by such sins as listed. He is not talking about those having been justified who struggle with sins. He is challenging them to make their calling and election sure and to examine themselves whether they be in the faith.

Paul's argument here is the very opposite to your implication. He is proving that justification by grace WITHOUT WORKS does not promote sin because all who are justified by the death of Christ are regenerated by the life of Christ. That we are no longer under the Law but under grace and under grace we have been made servants of righteousness by regeneration and by yeilding to the power of God through faith just as we were justified by faith. We are sanctified by faith and justified by faith "WITHOUT WORKS" and "WITHOUT LAW"!!

This does not disprove my position in the least. John is simply providing evidences whereby one can know they have been born of God. Love responds in obedience to God's Word (1 Jn. 5:3-4). A person who (present tense) continues in disobedience to God's Word has no foundation to claim they have been "born" of God but are still in the unregenerated condition described in Romans 8:7 - at enmity with God and not subject to the law of God. However, this text does not deny the struggle with sin in the life of all true Christians (1 Jn. 1:8-10) nor does it demand obedience to be justified before God or to be born again or to be a Christian. It simply provides evidences whereby we examine ourselves and others to "know" whether we have been born of God.

 

Do you think just repeating the text makes your interpretation any better?? You jerk it out of context and a text jerked out of context proves nothing. The fact is you dare not place it in its context because it would expose you. Romans 2:1-5 and Romans 2:17-29 sandwich this text and it is sandwiched between the same kind of folk - the kind that believe they will stand in the future judgement and be justified by their works.

Although out of one side of your mouth you claim the future judgement does not change anything but merely reveals it but then out of the other side of your mouth you deny that eternal life is possible apart from this future judgement. However, Jesus says that the believer will not come into this judgement (Jn. 5:24) and so I will side with him.

Moreover, you confuse the "foundation" with the "house" that is built upon it in Matthew 7:24-27. There is no difference in anything but the "foundation" between the two builders. The foundation is the Person and works of Jesus Christ that fulfills the Law in Matthew 5:16-17 and provides the righteousness that exceeds the best of men in Matthew 5:20 which is equal to that of God in Matthew 5:48. This is the will of God, that we believe in Christ for eternal life (Jn. 6:40) as Christ is the "foundation" (1 Cor. 3:11).

As for Matthew 7:1, it condemns only unrighteous judgement but Matthew 7:15-20 twice states that one can know a false prophet by their fruits and the fruits evident in the immediate context is teaching the doctrine of the "broad" way of "Lord, Lord....have we not done many wonderful works" as the basis for final justification and entrance into heaven. That is exactly what you are teaching in direct contradiction to both Christ's words in John 5:24 and Paul's in Romans 3:24-5:1.

 

You need to get out and read more. I have never denied this point but consistently taught that saved people must act like saved people or they have no experiential basis to claim to be saved people.

 

This kind of thinking would justify the use of every proof text by every cult in the world.

You just as well argue that Romans is sandwiched between Acts and I Corinthians and then pick any subject you like from either book!!!!!! Not only is Romans 2:6-14 sandwiched between verses 1-5 and 17-31 that deal with people who believe that their good works will justify them on judgement day WITHOUT CHRIST but the overall context from Romans 1:18-3:8 is to prove that there is no such human being that is "righteous" and doeth "good" that will be justified by their works (Rom. 3:19-21).

Romans 1:18-3:21 is sandwiched between Romans 1:17 and Romans 3:22-5:1 that teaches the righteousness necessary to pass the judgement is REVEALED in the gospel (Rom. 1:17) which is about the righteousness and redemption in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone by faith alone without works (Rom. 3:24-28). It is this kind of "faith" that has Christ for its object that not only justifies the sinner RIGHT NOW but validates the Law (Rom. 3:31) by satisfying all of its righteous demands through the life and death of Christ rather than through the life of the believer.

This is no incovenient summary at all. Paul is driving the nail in the coffin of Jewish self-righteousness. He is flatly telling them that their law keeping does not help them in the least because "IF" the gentile obeyes the law written in their conscience (which they don't) it would be regarded equal to their law keeping signified by circumcision. The Jew despised the "uncircumcised" gentile and God despied the Jewish circumcision because NO JEW has ever kept the Law (Jn. 7:19) or at least that is what Jesus said in John 7:19.

What a trashing of God's word!!!!! The gospel is the declaration of the righteousness of God in the Person and works of Jesus Christ. It is this standard as seen in the Person of Jesus Christ (absolute sinlessness) that will judge all who stand before God hoping to be justified by THEIR OWN righteousness and that is the type of person being considered in the preceding (vv. 1-5) and foregoing context (vv. 17-31). That is exactly your perspective as well, you believe that your RIGHTEOUS WORKS of law keeping will CONFIRM your justification but it will be your damnation instead just as it will be theirs (Rom. 3:19-20).

As Paul says, the gospel is to some damnation and to other salvation (2 Cor. 2:15-16) and in the context of Revelation 14:6-7 it is damnation (vv. 8-11). Those who reject the righteous provision in the gospel found in the Person and work of Christ are under the wrath of God (Jn. 3:36) as they can never produce righteousness in their own life by their own works that measures up to the Law's standard of righteousness (James 2:10-11).

Rewards not justification for salvation (I Cor. 3:11-15)

Says no such thing. It says "wages" not "rewards" and a wage is what you deserve but grace is something you cannot earn (Rom. 4:4) and you are claiming to earn justification by your own works.

Yes, they make the same profession you do "Lord Lord" plus "Have WE not done many wonderful works" - that is not the profession of a true child of God. There is no "WE" in a true profession of salvation and there is no "WE HAVE DONE" but rather it is all about what Christ has done "FOR" us (Rom. 4:24-25).

What an outright lie!!!! He uses the future tense not the present tense as you claim - "SHALL not COME into condemantion" and then joins it with a perfect tense of completed action in the past "but has PASSED from death unto life."

Of course you have to take the scriptures and twist them to say the very opposite to defend your position which is based upon twisting every text you use:

2 Cor. 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

GE:

Revelation is composed in 'parallels' (within a ‘chiasm’).

In the heart / centre of the ‘temple’ is chapter 14, "the EVERLASTING Gospel", like the ‘door’ entrance of the temple.

See:
http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 6, 2 First Resurrection.pdf pages 188/189.

[On the left hand, 'Thumbnail' button; scroll down to page you want printed, click on it; red border appears. Just above in left hand corner is button, 'Print'.]

Says BR:
"Notice that this is repeated by John in Rev 14:6-7 where the "Everlasting Gospel" includes the same future judgment message "for the hour of His judgment has come."

Seen from our own day that hour of judgment HAD come in Christ incarnated, crucified and resurrected: where the hour of judgment has stopped. The 'future judgment' is the judgment of the wicked and the devil and his angels when Jesus shall return and there will be a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells Righteousness: "The LORD our Righteousness".

 

You have them reversed. The succeeding cases in Romans 1-17 are WITHOUT WORKS of the law while the failing cases in Rom 1:18-3:20 are all failing cases by works.

Sorry to disappoint you but that was not my "if" but it is Paul's "if" and Christ's absolute denial:

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

Jesus said NONE OF THEM do this (Jn. 7:19). Paul says NONE, NOT ONE do this and therefore NO FLESH can be justified by the works of the law.

 

The believer succeeds (Rom. 1:1-17; 3:24-5:19) because he rejects his own attempts to keep the law and instead embraces by faith the good news that Christ has satisfied all of the Law's requirements IN HIS PLACE. He is no longer under the law (Rom. 6:14) but dead to the law through the body of Christ (Rom. 7:1-5). The law no longer has any claim on him and the believer no longer has any obligation for ANYTHING other than out of love.

The self-righteous fails (Rom. 1:18-2:5; 2:17-3:21) because his works do not and never will measure up to the Law's demands as it is not the one who says they are keeping the law but the one is doing the law that is justified by his works. Jesus said that NONE of the Jews ever kept the law (Jn. 3:19). Paul says NONE of the Gentiles or Jews ever kept the law (Rom. 3:9-18) and therefore there is "NO FLESH" that can be or will be justified by the law.

Jesus said that the believer "SHALL NOT COME" into condemnation/judgment but has already passed from death to life WITHOUT WORKS and only by FAITH in Christ.

Romans 2:6-15 simply sets forth the just criteria that God will apply to ALL WHO COME TO HIM BY THEIR OWN WORKS hoping to be justified. All who can measure up to God's standard of the Law,which is not saying but doing as James defines it (James 2:10) and according to the standard of righteousness revealed in the gospel (Rom. 1:17; 2:16) found in the person and works of Jesus Christ. Any man who comes before God to be justified by his own works and can measure up to the Person and works of Christ (Rom. 2:16) which reveals what doing the law means (James 2:10) then they will receive the reward of justification by the Law - eternal life but all who do not will receive the reward of sin - eternal damnation. That is the JUST CRITERIA.

However, the verdict is Romans 3:9-20 - There is not one human being on planet earth that can by his own works be justified for all have sinned and come short and that is God's righteous provision in Christ, His person and His works in behalf of sinners is declared in the gospel (Rom. 3:24-26) and that is why FAITH in the gospel vindicates the Law of God in behalf of the believer because only the life and works of Jesus Christ satisfies completely the Law's demands and the believer has been imputed that righteousness by faith.

The beleiver is not under the law any longer but dead to it. Our works have nothing to do with the Law or being justified or condemned by the law but have to do with our progression in grace here and now, experience of salvation benefits here and now and rewards in the future.