What must it be like -- to be wrong on a doctrinal POV?

Those spoken of in Matthew 7 are not an example of Christians with doctrinal errors. Jesus clearly tells them that He "never knew" them. Born of God believers are known personally just as sheep are known by their shepherd. Jesus makes this absolutely clear............

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Never should one reference Matt 7 as an example of true sheep who have been in some way disobedient children. The scripture makes very clear that Jesus' sheep are known by Him. In Matt 7 Jesus makes it very clear that He has "never" known these pretenders who were obviously just using His name for personal gains.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I have a feeling that the elder at the church that I once left would fall into that category. He stated explicitly, "I don't care what the Bible says...", then went on to explain how he let the Holy Spirit tell him the truth.

BTW, Steaver, are you assuming that all saved people are sheep?

 

No, not at all. I know from the scriptures that all saved people are Jesus' sheep.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

This is an interesting thread Bob, and not surprisingly it hasn't gotten much response

I don't think there are many people that fall into the above category. This is clearly evident here on the board. You can show someone how Scripture disagrees with ther position, but they continue to hold on to what they believe despite what Scripture says. They don't see clearly that their arguments don't hold water.

And this can be said by both sides. So the bottom line is that we can talk until we're blue in the face and get no further than square one, but just as you have pointed out there are going to be some surprised folks when they stand before the Judge.

The arrangment of the Greek text is such that these folks were expecting to receive a positive answer from the Lord. You correctly point out that these were not unsaved folks. But they clearly didn't receive the positive response they were looking for, and there are going to be a great many saved individuals that are going to be surprised by the response that they receive on that day depsite the many "good" works they "thought" they had done in their lifetime.

 

Why is this list called "baptistboard?" Because a minority baptized believers reject infant baptism. Why does this minority position insist that only it correctly interprets scripture? Why does the Holy Spirit give different information to Baptists? Or is the Bible insufficient for a clear understanding of that which is required?

For 1100 years "Christian" was defined by the ecumenical creeds? Why has the Holy Spirit caused Baptists to reject the ecumenical creeds while causing the majority to accept them?

How does Bapitst theory about rejecting ecumenical tradition differ from LDS theory of rejecting ecumenical tradition?

 

If you read ancient ecuminical writings, you will find that they are at wild variance with today's ecuminical creeds.

Why the difference?

 

Well there are a number of possible reasons. For pastors having to enter the pulpit and admit that something they had been teaching their congregation and that is held as church tradition is actually incorrect is probably too much for many of them to endure.

Some of the things that would have to admit to would drive the crowds away and they wouldn't be abe to fill as many pews, build as many buildings, have as big a salary, and the list could go on and on.

Same could hold true with missionaires or Sunday School/Bible study teachers.

For lay people it would mean that a pastor or commentator or Bible study teacher/SS teacher they hold high on a pedestal would be brought down if they were to admit to something being incorrect.

I don't really know why else a lay person wouldn't want to admit to Truth.

 

Since I am sure that you include your own self and some of your own positions as among those you speak of, how would you answer your own question?

Here is a start, a "gap" as you put it in your position....

Jesus said, "I NEVER KNEW YOU" in Matt 7. How then do you close the gap in your position that these people Jesus speaks of are "saved" knowing that a "saved" person is indeed known in a very personal way by Jesus because they have Jesus Christ living in them? They must have been regenerated at one point in their lives. Remember, Jesus said "NEVER" knew them.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I have had two pastor friends, one Baptist, one Nazarene, who hold Kingdom truths as being Scriptural, admit that although they believe in the Kingdom, they will not preach it from the pulpit, because they would lose their jobs.

I lost a job once because I would not violate Federal law (OSHA). Going along with the company would have been the easy way. The same holds true in an assembly: Taking a difficult stand will lose your job (prestige, etc.), so just go along with the flow (the easy way), and no one gets hurt. At least not until later.

 

Doctrine

Bob, This is an amazing thread. Not one Biblical point has been "won" by the Baptist/Fundamentalist on any of these threads I've read. You've been ripped to shreds by Agnus & Chemnitz and others, yet you are utterly blind to it. Reminds me of the scripture that "if your eye is filled with darkness - How great is that darkness." I find it incredible that anyone honestly seeking "truth" can be so blinded to the "immersion" only post. The only answer is "brainwashing". It's like dealing with Palestinian children who no matter what, or how, cling to the what they were taught.
The other side has at least several times the scriptures on their side, have to "infer" nothing as to meaning. And the preponderance of history is clearly against the 'immersion" only position. I'd guess that 98% or so of Christians that have ever lived have not limited Baptism to immersion only. You tell me how it feels to be utterly wrong and unable to admit it. Is it un-christian to tell a sick man he's ill?? I hope not. Your ill Bob and so are several others.

 

Whom Jesus is speaking "to" is not the message. The message is whom Jesus is speaking "of". The answer to that is He is speaking "to" the multitudes of people "of" those He "never knew" even though they will claim that they done many works and wonders in His name.

God Bless!

 

We agree! The saved do not have "pretended faith". Only genuine faith saves.

God Bless!

 

I have had those "Sadducees" moments in the past when I was first learning doctrines. When I found myself in that position I went back to deeper study and much prayer. Sometimes I changed my position because I was shown to be wrong. Sometimes I was right but just wasn't knowledgeable enough to have been placing myself into a debate over it. I got my butt whipped! :laugh:

Now, I have learned to only engage in those debates over doctrines that God has shown me through much prayer and study how to be viewed correctly. These include "born of God" or "born again", "eternal security" or "osas", "salvation of the soul", just to mention a few of the major ones. I am always considering an opponants points but they have yet to hold up against scripture interpreting scripture. I believe I have heard most all arguments, but I am always looking for new ones. If something new comes up I will investigate it thoroughly, but so far nothing I have seen has proven out in scripture.

I never "suppose" I am right. If i "believe" i am right it is because of much prayer and study and because opposing arguments do not hold up against scripture interpretations.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Jesus "never knew" these born of God new creations whom have the Spirit of Christ living within them?

God Bless!

 

Mat 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jhn 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 10:28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Speaking to "God's chosen people" Jesus said.........Jhn 10:26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Scripture interprets scripture.



God Bless! :thumbs: