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Featured What shapes your worldview? Which eschatological position do you hold?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Jan 21, 2021.

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  1. Be involved in the Great Commision only?

    9.1%
  2. Take dominion in every sphere of life as the Kingdom goes worldwide?

    18.2%
  3. Just seclude ourselves from the sinful world? Flee out of Babylon.

    9.1%
  4. The gospel of the Kingdom is going to continue to grow like the mustard seed parable

    18.2%
  5. No sense polishing the brass railings on the Titanic, the world is condemned already.

    9.1%
  6. Just rescue a few souls before the rapture rescues us.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Be involved in the Great Commission - Plus

    36.4%
  8. Other - please explain

    27.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What is your Worldview? What is your current end times position? What verses impact your understanding? How do you see your roll in serving God here and now?


    NOTE BY ADMIN: ADDED NEW ITEM TO POLL - ON REQUEST OF OP
    ALSO YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR VOTE!
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2021
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    None of the above. I believe in fulfilling the Great Commission, but not that only. I believe that revival is possible in all ages, and that the greatest revivals are yet to come, so I don't believe the last one, "just rescue a few souls." I don't believe in reconstructionism or anything like it, so I don't believe in the 2nd one.

    Truth be told, no offense, but your questions are slanted, so why would someone who disagrees with you take your survey?

    As for my roll in serving Jesus, please make it a cinnamon roll to go with my :Coffee.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    John of Japan,

    Hello John,
    Thanks for your response.

    1]For catching my spelling error , I will by you four Cinnamon Rolls, and a coffee. Maybe in Watertown if possible if Dr.Bob pulls the trigger on relocation, or closer to you when I get back up there.
    At least I spelled it correctly in the OP. :Redface Only got 4 hours sleep last night and find it harder to awake and get going before the sun appears.

    2] I rushed the poll while taking a coffee break on my phone

    3] It was not exhaustive as for as choices go, but just trying to discuss the overall topic based on some of the recent threads.


    4] You are allowed to pick multiple choices, not any one choice .
    The choice is not as important as the main idea like the title of a Francis Shaffer book,,, How shall we then live?


    Okay. Now, what choice would you have liked, word it however you want, it will be fine. Maybe Salty can add a few more choices which will be fine. The second choice could be I believe in the great Commission plus------?

    I agree.

    Yes, I remember when I pressed you a bit and your positive response a few months ago...I was trying to see if anyone holds to that idea. I thought I detected some of that kind of thought in the other thread.

    While some of the ideas of the reconstructionists have merit, they differ too much among themselves. I lean toward that at this time in the sense of a postmillenial worldview and way of life.
    I do not think as Christians we are to lay back and let the ungodly make our laws, and dictate to believers what we can and cannot do.
    If we leave a vacuum the ungodly will trip over themselves to fill it.

    This is probably my main concern. I do not believe in "world flight".
    Christians in retreat, waiting to be defeated and overrun by wickedness from the world system.
    I believe the kingdom continues to grow, by new birth until God's law is known from sea to sea.
    Perhaps you see this as a future event and not starting until a bodily physical return? I see it as started but with much work to do.

    8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

    9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

    10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

    11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

    If you put it off to a coming future period do you think that there will be nations, with kings and presidents, Like China, Russia, Europe? or is your understanding that Jesus will rule out of physical Jerusalem, on the physical throne of David?


    Yes...slanted somewhat, but if you just want to comment, that would be fine. Gallup has not asked me to apply to work for them as poll creator:Roflmao:Notworthy

    I will enjoy that if we can get it done,lol
     
  4. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    The faithfulness of God to both his unchanging righteous character and the certainty of Him fulfilling His prophecies. Therefore, I study, trust, attempt to obey, and watch.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    xlsdraw,

    Hello xisdraw, thanks for your response.

    When you say attempt to obey, are speaking of personal piety, or something more? How does this pattern work itself out in your interactions to a dying world?
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Phil.2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

    15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

    16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

    Do anyone think this just means be a silent witness like the Amish, or does it branch out into every aspect of our culture?
     
  7. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Simply means that I am a sinner saved by grace, that fights the spiritual battle every day, and I lose a few rounds. But I try to win every round.

    My interactions with a dying world is recognizing the depravity and apostasy of our day, being faithful in financial support to and prayers for my churches' vast ministries, helping where I see a need as able, and try to let the light of the Lord shine through my walk.
     
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  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I'm with John - formerly of Japan
    That first question threw me. it is yes - but NOT only......
     
  9. Lodic

    Lodic Active Member

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    My current end times position is Preterist. That is, most of the "end times" prophesies in Scripture point to 1st century Israel, not to our modern world. I believe these prophesies were fulfilled with the Jewish Wars ending in the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.
    The passages that have the strongest impact on this understanding is the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21).
    My role in serving God here and now is to advance His kingdom. I see Christians having a responsibility to transform our world just as we ourselves are transformed. As Christ's ambassadors, we are to influence every sphere of our culture.
     
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  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'll hold you to that. [​IMG]

    I believe in glorifying Christ as the central task of the church, and the Great Commission as the most important task in that effort. Another task in that effort is good citizenship by Christians, though that is not equal to the Great Commission. I do not put social action as equal to the Great Commission, unlike new evangelicalism (cf. the Lausanne Covenant).
    The John R. Rice side of fundamentalism still believes in revival, at least in theory. (The ministry I am in believe it not just in theory but in fact.) One of the issues that caused the break between Rice and Bob Jones, Jr., who believed revival was no longer possible.
    I disagree with the doctrine but agree with the practice. Premillennialism does not excuse poor citizenship.

    This will all be fulfilled by the reign of Christ.
    Jesus will rule for a 1000 years from the physical throne of David, which is not the same as the throne in Heaven of the Kingdom of God.
    More's the pity.
    Sounds like a plan.
     
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Salty could you add that option to the poll...Great Commission plus?
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    upload_2021-1-22_15-44-8.png

    JOJ...here are your Cinnabons,,,but I expect you want the LITERAL ones that the coffee has to wash down.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Done
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Thanks Salty...that gives the needed options!
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Virtual buns: interesting.
    Real ones: yummy!
     
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  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Mark 13:10
    And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations.

    The verse, above, expresses why we must follow Jesus words in Matthew 28:19-20.

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In the book The American Covenant in the introduction we are not to be judged on how well we guess the exact time of Christ's return. But rather concerning the Deeds we have done to build this Kingdom when He was not physically present here on Earth Luke 19:13, 2nd Corinthians 5:10 regardless of when Jesus Christ comes again and only the Father knows that time acts 1:7 Christians cannot ignore their stewardship to occupy until I come Luke 19:13. Who and what will occupy you there by government control quality and conduct of our schools?
    The Christian or the unbeliever?
    Which group of people was given the commission to occupy? Who is taking leadership in our society, Christians or unbelievers?
    Will biblical principles occupy only our Christian homes, churches, and missionary endeavors,not the Civil, economic, or cultural spheres of life in America because there is not enough time?
    Or because there is no vision of Faith to labor?
    And knowledge of God's hand in America history shows us that God gives his people the time needed to accomplish what is called them to do proverbs 14:34 righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people
     
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  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Iconoclast,

    Christians cannot ignore their stewardship to occupy until I come Luke 19:13

    What does this section of Hebrews mean to us right now?
    5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

    6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

    7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

    8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
    We are set over the "works of His hands".
    What do you understand those works to be?


    As new men in Christ are we to just lay low and be dormant?

    Or are we to advocate for change to bring laws based on godly principle?

    Who and what will thereby occupy?

    If Christians avoid politics, legislators, lawyers,and judges, are we not guilty of world flight and handing it over to the ungodly?


    Who will govern and control quality and conduct of our schools?
    The Christian or the unbeliever?

    If we retreat we hand it over by default
    Which group of people was given the commission to occupy?


    Christians are the only people with a correct view of reality.

    Who is taking leadership in our society, Christians or unbelievers?

    Christians are handing over the leadership by being guilty of world-flight.

    Will biblical principles occupy only our Christian homes, churches, and missionary endeavors,not the Civil, economic, or cultural spheres of life in America because there is not enough time?
    Or because there is no vision of Faith to labor?
    And knowledge of God's hand in America history shows us that God gives his people the time needed to accomplish what is called them to do proverbs 14:34 righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people
     
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  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    First, the US is not in a covenant relationship with God. We are exiles in wretched world. We occupy space on this planet. We do not work to create our own vision of heaven on earth.

    We are ambassadors. This means we are not citizens in the kingdoms of men. We go to our Kings embassy (local church) to hear what our King has to say. As Ambassadors, we tell citizens in the kingdoms of men that they need to reconcile with our King because our King is returning and when He does He will judge this world by fire. He will separate the sheep from the goats.
    The more people who are reconciled with the King, the more righteous and holy the community will be on earth.
    Christians have one purpose on this earth. Our purpose is to call all humanity to reconciliation with God.
     
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