What songs can a Calvinist teach to their children?

[TexasSky]

Thank you, Bro. Dallas.

Your answer were thoughtful and delivered in a very Christian manner. I appreciate the time you took in responding. You are the first and only Calvinist who has ever offered a valid answer.

God bless you.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Pipedude:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jarthur001:
this is crazy

What's crazy, J? Was Pink wrong when he said regarding the souls in Hell that "[God] never loved them"? If a kid isn't elect, God doesn't love him (according to the doctrines of grace). Christ didn't die for him. That's just plain old Reformed theology, and it applies to little sinners just as much as to big ones.

I heard R. C. Sproul asked in a public lecture on election whether or not we could tell a sinner that God loves him. His ultimate answer was negative. Sproul oughta know.

Everything I've ever read from the Reformed camp says the same thing. Those little squirts are singing bad, bad theology when they say that the Bible tells them that Jesus loves them. No one can know whether or not Jesus loves them. According to the doctrines of grace, he hates most of them and created them as vessels of destruction so that they might be damned forever to the greater glory of God.

Jesus doesn't love reprobate children; Dianetavegia is right. </font>[/QUOTE]Well no it is not just plain ol Reformed theology. The fact is calvin teaches God came to save the WORLD. It seems you left this part out. Calvin teaches ALL can come to him..and be saved. Again..you left out.

the order as i have posted before...pipedude for you to view

1)God is
2)God makes man
3)Man falls into sin
4)God gives a promise of redemption
5)Christ comes
6)God invites all to be saved
7)Man believes and is saved

both of us will agree to this.... this is the gospel..right?

now add this..”no one seeks after God”

this is left out by many..yet it is found in the Bible

So where do you place this Bible truth? I place it between 6 and 7.

but then how do we get to 7?

Welcome to election

You see Reformed theology does teach Gods love. right? and...the "standing offer", as bob calls it...is still in place. So God loves the World..yet the world will not come. So God can choose if He wants...for he is God.

And why does he choose?
Lets try this word... LOVE


In Christ...James

 

[Jarthur001]

see below..i hit the wrong thingy

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
Now let me add....election is a tool..to share God love. We are told to GO TELL.
So..Those that have not heard...some of the blaim will be on us...for not going

So anyway..back to the OP. Calvinist do teach God loves the World...and the ALL the kids. So we can sing "Yes Jesus Loves me". We are not God and we do not know who God will open the eyes to understanding. Our goal is to SHARE...and let God work.

Like i said...the OP is crazy..and shows lack of understanding....just as the robots post.

In Christ...James

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pipedude:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jarthur001:
this is crazy

What's crazy, J? Was Pink wrong when he said regarding the souls in Hell that "[God] never loved them"? If a kid isn't elect, God doesn't love him (according to the doctrines of grace). Christ didn't die for him. That's just plain old Reformed theology, and it applies to little sinners just as much as to big ones.

I heard R. C. Sproul asked in a public lecture on election whether or not we could tell a sinner that God loves him. His ultimate answer was negative. Sproul oughta know.

Everything I've ever read from the Reformed camp says the same thing. Those little squirts are singing bad, bad theology when they say that the Bible tells them that Jesus loves them. No one can know whether or not Jesus loves them. According to the doctrines of grace, he hates most of them and created them as vessels of destruction so that they might be damned forever to the greater glory of God.

Jesus doesn't love reprobate children; Dianetavegia is right. </font>[/QUOTE]Well no it is not just plain ol Reformed theology. The fact is calvin teaches God came to save the WORLD. It seems you left this part out. Calvin teaches ALL can come to him..and be saved. Again..you left out.

the order as i have posted before...pipedude for you to view

1)God is
2)God makes man
3)Man falls into sin
4)God gives a promise of redemption
5)Christ comes
6)God invites all to be saved
7)Man believes and is saved

both of us will agree to this.... this is the gospel..right?

now add this..”no one seeks after God”

this is left out by many..yet it is found in the Bible

So where do you place this Bible truth? I place it between 6 and 7.

but then how do we get to 7?

Welcome to election

You see Reformed theology does teach Gods love. right? and...the "standing offer", as bob calls it...is still in place. So God loves the World..yet the world will not come. So God can choose if He wants...for he is God.

And why does he choose?
Lets try this word... LOVE


In Christ...James </font>[/QUOTE]"noone seeks after God" could be placed at 3b, 4b, 5b or 6b.

How do we get to 7? Nowhere does the Bible mention election, but the drawing from the Holy Spirit to ALL men resulting in our faith and ultimately our election (that salvation was intended for gentile as well as jew since before the world began).

 

[Monergist]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Honestly, I was just told Presbyterians cannot sing many songs from our church hymnal. A man was singing with a blended choir and was being teased by other choir members when he mentioned a number of hymns that are off limits due to Calvinistic teachings.

I've forgotten the one that he went on and on about...
'Just As I Am'? 'I Surrender All'? 'Almost Persuaded'? 'I Have Decided To Follow Jesus'? Can't recall...

The TRINITY HYMNAL has long been the one most commonly used by Reformed Presbyterians. For a listing of songs it contains CLICK HERE&gt;

If Presbyterians do not sing some songs that you commonly sing, why should that bother you? Does your song-list somehow set the standard for what everyone else should sing? The only song list that I'm aware of that is divinely inspired is the Book of Psalms. Does your choir regularly sing all of those? I doubt it. My calvinist church includes the singing of psalms in every service, but I'm not on here trashing others for not doing it.

 

[Monergist]

Some songs that this Calvinist has taught his 4 year old to know by heart:

Great is Thy Faithfulness
It is Well With My Soul
Amazing Grace
O the Deep Deep Love of Jesus
And Can it Be
A Mighty Fortess is our God
My Jesus I Love Thee
Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing
Holy Holy Holy
All Hail the Power of Jesus Name
My Hope is Built on Nothing Less
Psalm 23
Psalm 98
Psalm 100
Psalm 150

And her favorite... Crown Him With Many Crowns.

And Yes, she knows Jesus Loves Me, too.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally posted by webdog:

"noone seeks after God" could be placed at 3b, 4b, 5b or 6b.

How do we get to 7? Nowhere does the Bible mention election, but the drawing from the Holy Spirit to ALL men resulting in our faith and ultimately our election (that salvation was intended for gentile as well as jew since before the world began). [/QUOTE]

Yes you are so right webdog. But john 1 makes it last till after 6. For Christ comes..and the world does not understand..even after he comes.

as to election..election only means Choosen by God. We must place on this..a meaning. Some say it is the Church body..and not one person. yet the Bible says it is the church..a nation..a person. It takes on the meaning of the context. Still..what does it mean to be choosen by God? not who...but what does choosen mean? I think is means..God elected to share his love with me.

so..anyway..back to what you said above. how does this come about?

Romans 10
13 For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." 19 Again I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry." 20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me." 21 But of Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people."

so...the preacher must go..for man will not seek...
the preacher must tell...
the sinner must hear....
the sinner must understand....
the sinner has faith....
salvation

if you wounder where i get the understand part...look down in 19. The jews were Gods Choosen nation. Did all jews understand and have faith? no. understanding must come before faith.

so my list stands as before...and yes God elects to share his love.

notice also...in 20
Isaiah was found along with those that did not seek God.

also..21
The offer is out all day long......yet men are disobedient and contrary people

In Christ...james

 

[Andy T.]

Bro. Dallas,

That was a great answer you gave to TexasSky's question on evangelism, and it is the answer that most Calvinists would give, if they had the godly patience you displayed. Many times, I think we feel the question is being asked to not look for any real answers, but to attack a strawman. (Not saying this was TexasSky's intent, though.)

 

[dianetavegia]

Monergist, It didn't BOTHER me. It was something I had never thought of! The Pres. brother was quite funny in his replies, teasing back... and since I'm not in the choir (and all the church people shout out PTL), I only heard snippets of the 'fun making' and good hearted replies.

Crown Him with Many Crowns is another of my favorites but no one ever sings my favorite verse!

Crown him the Lord of love;
behold his hands and side,
those wounds, yet visible above,
in beauty glorified.
All hail, Redeemer, hail!
For thou hast died for me;
thy praise and glory shall not fail
throughout eternity.

I like Victory in Jesus!
Jesus calls us over the tumult
There is a fountain filled with blood
My hope is built on nothing less

My Jesus, I love Thee, I know Thou art mine;
For Thee all the follies of sin I resign.
My gracious Redeemer, my Savior art Thou;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ’tis now.

I love Thee because Thou has first loved me,
And purchased my pardon on Calvary’s tree.
I love Thee for wearing the thorns on Thy brow;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ’tis now.

I’ll love Thee in life, I will love Thee in death,
And praise Thee as long as Thou lendest me breath;
And say when the death dew lies cold on my brow,
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ’tis now.

In mansions of glory and endless delight,
I’ll ever adore Thee in heaven so bright;
I’ll sing with the glittering crown on my brow;
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ’tis now.

I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold;
I'd rather be His than have riches untold;
I'd rather have Jesus than houses or land;
I'd rather be led by His nail-pierced hand:

refrain:
Than to be the king of a vast domain or be held in sin's dread sway!
I'd rather have Jesus than anything this world affords today.

I'd rather have Jesus than men's applause;
I'd rather be faithful to His dear cause;
I'd rather have Jesus than world-wide fame;
I'd rather be true to His holy name:

He's fairer than lilies of rarest bloom;
He's sweeter than honey from out the comb;
He's all that my hungering spirit needs -
I'd rather have Jesus and let Him lead:

I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The Son of God discloses.

Refrain

And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of His voice,
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that He gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

Refrain

I’d stay in the garden with Him
Though the night around me be falling,
But He bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling.

 

[Pastor Larry]

3. He left His father's throne above
So free, so infinite His grace!
Emptied Himself of all but love
And bled for Adam's helpless race!
'Tis mercy all, immense and free
For O my God, it found out me.

And Can It Be is an excellent song. We sang it Sunday night here. But this verse is theologically incorrect. Jesus didn't empty himself of "all but love." He still retained his deity. What he did was voluntarily limit the use of his divine attributes. We sing it "Emptied himself and came in love."

 

[dianetavegia]

Pastor Larry, is your hymnal printed that way or do you just change it as a group?

On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,
The emblem of suffering and shame;
And I love that old cross where the dearest and best
For a world of lost sinners was slain.

Refrain

So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross,
Till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
And exchange it some day for a crown.

O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,
Has a wondrous attraction for me;
For the dear Lamb of God left His glory above
To bear it to dark Calvary.

Refrain

In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
A wondrous beauty I see,
For ’twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
To pardon and sanctify me.

Refrain

To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;
Its shame and reproach gladly bear;
Then He’ll call me some day to my home far away,
Where His glory forever I’ll share.

I've said many times that I heard a report back in maybe 1996 off the Toccoa Falls College Radio Station that 85% of what people say they know about God was learned through hymns. BECAUSE of that, I've gone out of my way to teach my little church children songs of Jesus' love, plus some 'Rock'a My Soul in the Bossom of Abraham'. It breaks my heart that church children, 5 years old, have never had mommy and daddy sing songs to them!

Psalms 57:7 My heart is steadfast, O God, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and give praise. 8 Awake, my glory! Awake, lute and harp! I will awaken the dawn. 9 I will praise You, O Lord, among the peoples; I will sing to You among the nations. 10 For Your mercy reaches unto the heavens, And Your truth unto the clouds. 11 Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; Let Your glory be above all the earth.

 

[4His_glory]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 3. He left His father's throne above
So free, so infinite His grace!
Emptied Himself of all but love
And bled for Adam's helpless race!
'Tis mercy all, immense and free
For O my God, it found out me.

And Can It Be is an excellent song. We sang it Sunday night here. But this verse is theologically incorrect. Jesus didn't empty himself of "all but love." He still retained his deity. What he did was voluntarily limit the use of his divine attributes. We sing it "Emptied himself and came in love." </font>[/QUOTE]I change it to "gave He, Himself, in His great love.

 

[OCC]

Jarthur, she was no more hateful than some of the Calvinists on here who get away with their hate. 'nuff said.

David, I'm glad you pointed out yourself that that is a poor generalization.

If Diane's song is offensive then so is Pipedude's. Actually I think neither is offensive. Both are written from their points of view.

 

[dianetavegia]

As an 11 year old, in 1962, my favorite song was an old southern gospel song 'Just a Little Cabin in Glory'. I had it on a 45rpm. The 'flip side' was the 'hit' song but I wore out needles until I wore out the 45. I've had people link me to what they thought was the song but none have been it.

Certainly that song was NOT scriptural because none of the saints will have just a little cabin in glory but the thought behind the song was, I just want to be with Jesus!

 

[rc]

Jesus will judge the little sinners
All the little sinners of the world
Yellow, red, black or white,
they're an abomination in His sight,
Jesus judges little sinners of the world!

(edited spelling for rc only)

[ August 02, 2005, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

[Monergist]

 

[rc]

can't edit their for they're... to late...

don't get your undies in a bunch, I was just joking....

 

[dianetavegia]

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.

Open Up Your Heart and Let the Sun Shine In Lyrics

Mommy told me something
a little kid should know.
It's all about the devil
and I've learned to hate him so.
She said he causes trouble
when you let him in the room.
He will never ever leave you
if your heart is filled with gloom.

So let the sun shine in
face it with a grin.
Smilers never lose
and frowners never win.
So le the sun shine in
face it with a grin
Open up your heart and let the sun shine in.

When you are unhappy,
the devil wears a grin
But oh, he starts to running
when the light comes pouring in
I know he'll be unhappy
'Cause I'll never wear a frown
Maybe if we keep on smiling
He'll get tired of hanging 'round.

If I forget to say my prayers
the devil wears a grin.
But he feels so awful awful
when he sees me on my knees
So if you're full of trouble
and you never seem to win,
Just open up your heart and let the sun shine in.

So let the sun shine in
face it with a grin.
Smilers never lose
and frowners never win.
So le the sun shine in
face it with a grin
Open up your heart and let the sun shine in.

 

[rc]

Their feet shall slip in due time....

Jonathan Edwards.

The problem is when you teach kids "children's" songs you nurture their theology to form to these understandings.... I would rather (and have) taught my children the great hymns right from the get go. Holy, Holy, Holy, ... Be thou My Vision... so they have a "God centered" praise and not a man centered praise.