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What the Word of God says on Total Depravity

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by tnelson, Feb 21, 2004.

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  1. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    logically, if "bull" is a naughty word, then "god" must be a naughty word too!

    Bull is part of a phrase and god is part of a like phrase.

    CONTEXT is everything!
     
    #61 Yelsew2, Feb 24, 2004
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Time to get back to the topic. As previously stated, if one has a problem with the decisions I make as a moderator it needs to be taken up with an administrator. That's all there is to say about it or there will be no point in keeping this thread open. (and Skandalon, the list is pretty much all cuss words and questionable words left to the discretion of moderators)
    Gina
     
    #62 Gina B, Feb 24, 2004
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Okie dokie.

    Back to the topic. [​IMG]
     
    #63 Skandelon, Feb 24, 2004
  4. tnelson

    tnelson New Member

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    A few more:
    Colossians 2:13
    "And you, being dead in your sins and uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened(made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses." The absolute helplessness of the soul prior to salvation to save itself or have any part in its own regeneration is complete, for the heart is dead.

    2Tim.2:25
    "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." Such is the nature of the natural man that he opposes the message of the gospel and those who present it. Nevertheless, ministers must be patient and gentle, for it is possible that God will give the grace needed for repentance to the lost. Only such divinely given mercy can rescue men from the stupification of their sinful state.

    (26)"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare (trap) of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." The desperate plight of the natural man is compounded by the strength of Satan who is able to trape the soul and keep it in spiritual bondage.

    Titus 1:15
    "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." The Scriptures reveal the state of the natural man to be that of total corruption and defilement in every facet of the soul, will, mind, and emotions. The heart is a slave to sin.

    Titus 3:3
    "For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, divers (many) lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." The Christian remembers that sin reigns universally over all who are kept under its power. As a result, none are righteous in the sight of God prior to salvation.

    I will post more later: [​IMG]

    by His Grace
    mike
     
    #64 tnelson, Feb 24, 2004
  5. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Mike,

    I've been reading all of you posts and I'm still waiting for the verse that teaches that men cannot believe the powerful Holy Spirit wrought gospel message.

    Can you find that one for me? [​IMG]
     
    #65 Skandelon, Feb 24, 2004
  6. Hamtramck_Mike

    Hamtramck_Mike New Member

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    OK we will try this again: 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
    39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
    41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.



    46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
    47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
    48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
    49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me (John 8:38-49)
     
    #66 Hamtramck_Mike, Feb 24, 2004
  7. Hamtramck_Mike

    Hamtramck_Mike New Member

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    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:44)

    60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
    61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
    62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? (John 6:60-67)
     
    #67 Hamtramck_Mike, Feb 24, 2004
  8. Hamtramck_Mike

    Hamtramck_Mike New Member

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    5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 5:15)
    This is for believers

    This is for the unregenerate:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth (Romans 9:17)
     
    #68 Hamtramck_Mike, Feb 24, 2004
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Mike,

    Still don't see the verse that teaches that men cannot believe the powerful Holy Spirit wrought gospel message.

    None of these verse speak of men ability to believe the gospel message do they?
     
    #69 Skandelon, Feb 24, 2004
  10. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    tnelson,

    "Divers", as in Titus 3:3, need not mean "many as you stated. but can mean any number greater than one. Therefore "divers" does not support "Total Depravity".

    [qoute]divers, adj.
    1. several; various; sundry: divers articles.
    –pron.
    2. (used with a pl. v.) an indefinite number more than one: He chose divers of them, who were asked to accompany him.[/quote]
     
    #70 Yelsew2, Feb 24, 2004
  11. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    John 8:38-49 - these Pharisees do not believe in Christ, because of their heart harden.

    That context does not relate to any person cannot be allow to believe in Christ such as total depravity.

    We all born with sin. We are all crooked. That why we need Jesus Christ.

    God sent His Son to earth to died on the cross, give us the choice to believe or reject God's love offering - Jesus Christ.

    Any person CAN come and ask Christ to be saved - Rev. 22:17 -"And the Spirit and the bride say, COME. and LET him that heareth say, COME. And LET him that is ATHIRST COME. And whosever will, LET him take the water of life FREELY."

    It proves us, that we have freewill to make decision to come to Jesus Christ and to believe on Christ for salvation.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
    #71 DeafPosttrib, Feb 25, 2004
  12. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    #72 Yelsew2, Feb 25, 2004
  13. Hamtramck_Mike

    Hamtramck_Mike New Member

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    You talk of these Pharasees "heart harden as if it is something altogether distinct or "special"

    Our Lord Jesus knew this would be recorded in Scriptuure, every jot and tittle; this speaks to ALL of us without distinction Deafposttrib
     
    #73 Hamtramck_Mike, Feb 25, 2004
  14. tnelson

    tnelson New Member

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    Matt.19:16
    "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    Matt.19:25-26
    "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but wih God all things are possible."

    Mark 10:17
    "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

    Mark 10:26-27
    "And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselfes, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."

    Luke 18:18
    "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

    Luke 18:26-27
    "And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."

    by His Grace
    mike
     
    #74 tnelson, Feb 25, 2004
  15. tnelson

    tnelson New Member

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    A few more:
    James 3:2
    "For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a pertect man, able also to bridle the whole body." Antoher manifestation of the natural corruption of the soul is the inability to control the tongue."

    (8)"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." The inability of man to control his tongue reflects the total depravity of the heart from which comes forth the most vile words expressing the darkest intentions of the heart. let the honest heart confess, "I am a poor sinner, and nothing at all But Jesus Christ is may ALL in all."

    1 John 1:8
    "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." The doctrine of total depravity teaches man's total inability to come to Christ apart from sovereign grace. Those who are under the universal reign of sin are unable of their own will to repent, to believe the gospel, or to come to Christ. They have no natural spiritual powere or innate ability to change their natures or prepare themselves for salvation. To deny a sin nature is to deny the obvious.

    (10)"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

    1 John 3:10
    "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." The natural inclination of the unregenerated heart is to love neither God nor man, all the while performing acts of unrighteousness.

    1 John 5:19
    "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." The honest heart knows two truths, whether or not it is born of God and whether or not it lives in the sphere, strength, and power of the evil one.

    by His Grace
    mike
     
    #75 tnelson, Feb 25, 2004
  16. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Mike,
    Still don't see the verse that teaches that men cannot believe the powerful Holy Spirit wrought gospel message.

    Yes, salvation is impossible for man without God. No one denies that.

    Jesus also said, "With faith all things are possible."
     
    #76 Skandelon, Feb 25, 2004
  17. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    TNelson,
    You're preachin' to the Choir! We know and Acknowledge all the scriptures you've posted. Salvation is the FREE gift of God to those who believe in Him, even on the name of His beloved Son Jesus.
     
    #77 Yelsew2, Feb 26, 2004
  18. Hamtramck_Mike

    Hamtramck_Mike New Member

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    Then we remain polarized in this regard my good friend and I will leave it at that [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #78 Hamtramck_Mike, Feb 26, 2004
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