What's really going on with the Arizona bill

[Thinkingstuff]

The fact is I believe that the Obama administration purposely did not provide boarder support by military, INS or now known as ICE, and boarder agents to Arizona specifically because they determined the conservative state being reactionary as conservatives have been would pass such a law. With such a law it is easy to show how conservatives are holding to Gestapo measures and throw in a few disruptive persons claiming to be tea party people and you have national opinion thinking republican's are facist. November is coming fast. The hispanic community that are legal and can vote are up in arms and though generally conservative and republican now be swayed to be democratic. That should help with this election. I just heard on Glenn Beck that the administration is pushing for Puerto Rico to have a simple majority vote to have them enter statehood in which case since they are progressive communist for the most part they will now have representation in both houses pushing for communistic agenda's. Is it really all about the power grab for the far left democrates that actaully have communistic leanings? Is it a play for more power by Obama? And the reactionary attitude of the conservative movement is helping them? The very reason simple solutions aren't always best.

 

[targus]

What you suggest could be true if people are unwilling to find out and understand what the bill actually says.

I see that your knowledge of the American legal system hasn't improved much since the discussion started - if you are still using words like Gestapo.

 

[matt wade]

The hispanic community that are legal and can vote are up in arms and though generally conservative and republican now be swayed to be democratic. That should help with this election.

Hispanics have generally voted for the democrat candidate. Where do you get that the Hispanic community generally vote republican?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Hispanics have generally voted for the democrat candidate. Where do you get that the Hispanic community generally vote republican?

I've been a life long republican. Every other hispanic person I know is a republican. Most hispanics I encounter hold to family values and go against the democratic party with regard to issues like abortion, etc... And since the vast majority of them are Catholic hold similar views to the Catholic Church. Note there is also a growing evangelical particularily pentecostal move in hispanic communities which by nature are also conservative. In fact, we see strong conservative leanings of hispanic groups in Texas. Your more liberal hispanics tend to be Pueto Ricans and Cubans. Mexicans I've encountered seem to lean more conservative.

 

[targus]

Mexicans I've encountered seem to lean more conservative.

With the exception of the drug dealers. And that is not racism - it is an acknowledgement of the fact that there is a large criminal element among the illegal immigrant population.

Perhaps if Mexico were to reign in the drug cartels and if the Mexican police and the Mexican army were to help stop the drug dealers from illegally entering into the U.S the illegal immigration issue would not be as explosive as it is today.

And then there is the whole Mexican/Hispanic gang thing going on across the entire country. That doesn't help the pro-amnesty crowd either.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

With the exception of the drug dealers. And that is not racism - it is an acknowledgement of the fact that there is a large criminal element among the illegal immigrant population.

Perhaps if Mexico were to reign in the drug cartels and if the Mexican police and the Mexican army were to help stop the drug dealers from illegally entering into the U.S the illegal immigration issue would not be as explosive as it is today.

And then there is the whole Mexican/Hispanic gang thing going on across the entire country. That doesn't help the pro-amnesty crowd either.

I'm not for amnesty. Mexico is currently at war with its drug cartels and loosing because of the financial support the drug cartels are getting from the US. How about the us police catching the guys giving the guns from the US to the drug dealers? How about busting the enduser aspect of that crime? You might make more headway.
If business owners did not permit and hire these people it would be a problem accross the country. Get the source not the exploited poor people.

 

[Cutter]

A blogger, Greg Patterson, dispels some of the myths about the new bill in Arizona. Myths in italics.
The broad anti-immigrant bill passed by the Legislature this week makes it a crime to be in the country illegal:

Wrong. It's already a crime to be in the country illegally. SB 1070 made it a STATE crime by copying the federal language. This makes a huge difference because opponents used Dionne's quote to say that Arizona was adopting its own immigration policy as well as criminalizing being in the country illegally. Both of those assumptions are wrong.

The need to carry proper 'papers' falls squarely on Arizona's Latino population -- including those born and raised in the Grand Canyon State.

Wrong--and frankly outrageous. Federal law already requires resident aliens to carry registration documents. SB 1070 makes it a state crime to violate the federal law. The law doesn't apply to "those born and raised in the Grand Canyon State" because they are obviously citizens. The law also lists documents that provide a presumption of citizenship one of which is a Driver's License. There is no needfor citizens to carry their birth certificate or passport. Once again, if you read the explanation in Sunday's Republic, you will see how incorrect the editorial is.

The bill invites racial profiling and ignores the fact that Latinos are an intrinsic part of Arizona's history and its future.

Wrong. Actually, the bill prohibits racial profiling by saying that race can only be considered to the "extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." And under no circumstances can the officer "solely" consider race, color or national origin. (He can "consider" race as a factor just like he can under federal and Arizona law now.) Sunday's version doesn't even address this point because the bill makes it so clear that racial profiling is NOT allowed that it wasn't even worth a mention--that's because there's no change in the law. Racial profiling was not allowed before the bill and it's not allowed after the bill.

 

[matt wade]

I've been a life long republican. Every other hispanic person I know is a republican. Most hispanics I encounter hold to family values and go against the democratic party with regard to issues like abortion, etc... And since the vast majority of them are Catholic hold similar views to the Catholic Church. Note there is also a growing evangelical particularily pentecostal move in hispanic communities which by nature are also conservative. In fact, we see strong conservative leanings of hispanic groups in Texas. Your more liberal hispanics tend to be Pueto Ricans and Cubans. Mexicans I've encountered seem to lean more conservative.

The people you know must not be in the norm:

According to the Pew Hispanic Center report on the 2008 election, the 67% of Hispanic votes that went to Barack Obama was within the norm for presidential elections since 1988. Bill Clinton got 72% in 1996 and Al Gore 62% in 2000. Thus, Obama's 67% was not a departure from historical levels. While Bush got 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2004, he got only 35% in 2000 and the Republican candidate in 1996, Robert Dole, received only 21%.

http://facethestate.com/articles/12556-understanding-67-hispanic-vote-obama

 

[targus]

I'm not for amnesty. Mexico is currently at war with its drug cartels and loosing because of the financial support the drug cartels are getting from the US.

By financial support do you mean the money that they make by illegally smuggling drugs into the U.S.

If we did not have illegal crossings into we would not have a problem with the Mexican drug cartels.

How about the us police catching the guys giving the guns from the US to the drug dealers?

Same thing - if we stopped illegal crossings at the border we would not have this problem either>

How about busting the enduser aspect of that crime? You might make more headway.

I doubt that you would find many who support the Arizona law who would disagree with going after drug users.

If business owners did not permit and hire these people it would be a problem accross the country. Get the source not the exploited poor people.

Oops... your bad. Going after employers of illegal immigrants is in the Arizona bill.

I guess that you didn't read it very carefully.