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Featured Whats wrong with Calvinists ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Oct 14, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Now to be clear i do hold to eternal security. Not the Calvinist version of it ( based on ' election ' ) . But After we believe we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. We cannot be unsealed .
    So my post is about why there is no Joy in Calvinism . I first noticed this from listening to Paul washer . I could not understand why he had such anguish in his face and why so much railing and ranting towards his listeners on right living and the dangers of false teachings ect . But then we see this in Piper and Macarthur . A solem and anguished demeaneor. Why does Paul washer sound like his listeners can lose their salvation? or that they need to beware of false teachings ? Why do calvinists preach like an Arminian . As if there ' right living ' is necessary for keeping ones salvation and not walking away .
    You could easily be mistaking with such teachers as Paul washer that they hold to loss of salvation through their heavy emphasis on works . Just like we hear from the likes of David Pawson . Infact if you put some of the content of Paul washer ( ect ) and David pawson( Arminain ) some of it would sound the same on perseverance. What gives ? If you are one of the elect ,where is the Joy ? why the Anguish? no more or no less people will be saved and can do nothing about it . Its all determined . An elect person cannot be lost . But why do you live as if you can be lost . Why are your preachers ,preaching like an arminain on works ?
    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Because they have a high view of God and take seriously the command to obey Him and live for Him?
     
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  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Because they are sincerely calling for their listeners to heed the call of the gospel and come to Christ for salvation.

    They care about the lives and souls of the lost.

    peace to you
     
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Why with such great pains ? The ' election 'has already taken place
    But they will heed the call and will be saved ( the elect) why are they preaching like the Arminain?
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nothing is wrong with Calvinists. God made them that way for a purpose. :)
     
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  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Because they genuinely love the lost and grieve for their condition and desire them to come to faith in Christ.

    They aren’t preaching like an Arminian, they are preaching like dying men to dying men.

    peace to you
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We just want to make sure that their election is confirmed and sure!
     
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  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But they will come according to their doctrines. Are they kinda living in such a way inspite of what they teach ? Dying men to dying men ? Isn't it a bit like when your trying to locate your car in a large car park and your aiming your key fob hoping it will find the right one ?
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Isnt it all of God ?
     
  10. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    I think you're failing to see that while there may be a vast theological gulf between Arminianism and Calvinism, in practical matters the difference is much less.

    Both sides worship God, preach the Word to the unbelievers, fight sin in our lives. So unless you're conflating Calvinism with some sort of strict mechanical determinism...what's so hard to see?
     
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  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that the gulf is vast. The thinking and outcome is the same. I could put David pawson and Paul washer side by side preaching, and as long as they didn't specifically mention certain topics on doctrines we'd struggle to spot the difference .
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You simply don’t understand what folks who embrace the doctrines of grace believe.

    I would explain it again, but I really don’t think you want to accept what I say.

    peace to you
     
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Wait....Are you saying Arminians preach like living men to dying men?
     
  14. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    @Barry Johnson you have made clear time and time again that you do not know what Calvinists actually belive/preach/teach nor do you want to know. So you keep pushing false versions of what we believe and attack us for it....
     
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  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No. A famous preacher used that line. Like a dying man to dying men. Spurgeon, I think. Sort of a modest way of acknowledging the preacher’s own nature and the urgency of preaching.

    peace to you
     
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Dumb saying. Preach like living men with a living hope to dying men with no hope.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Found it - Richard Baxter.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Looks a little immodest and condescending to me.

    peace to you
     
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  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. You must have great resources to find it so fast. I have one of his books, must have been where I picked it up.

    That makes sense, the puritans were very conscious to display modesty in their professions of faith.

    peace to you
     
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, it has nothing to do with my modesty and it is certainly not condescending to you (you did not come up with the quote).

    I do not understand refering to Calvinists as dying men, that's all. We are the living calling out to the dead.
     
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