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Featured Where does the Bible teach a pre-trib rapture?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 37818, Aug 4, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where does the word of God explicitly teach a pre-trib rapture?
     
  2. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    A better question is where does it not teach one.

    The kingdom of God that is anticipated through the entire scriptures will have the trinitarian signature and will be two parts earthly and one part heavenly. On earth it will resemble the world before the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ with Israel in her land and he city and the nations spread abroad into all the world. The church represents the seat of God in the heavenlies where she will abide in the satellite city New Jerusalem as kings and priests where the throne of God is. The individual will have the same structure with body, soul, and the indwelling Spirit. Israel, the nations, and the church. The trinity is stamped all over everything that God makes except the lake of fire. The body of Christ that is being formed today but is not quite complete is Jews, gentiles, indwelled indivivdually and corporately with the Spirit, who, we are told, is the temple of God. You will need to see this in print.

    In this passage, the "ye" are gentiles as opposed to Jews and the saints are born again Jews as opposed to gentiles.


    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spiri
    t.

    The magnificent wisdom of God is beyond our ability to dig it out without his help.

    At the end of this age the church will be taken to the Fathers house like the unnamed servant of Abraham took Rebekah to meet the Lord in the field, who took her as his bride to his Fathers house in Gen 24, a physical type of the rapture of the church that he, the Spirit, the unnamed servant, had gathered in the world before she had ever seen the bridegroom.

    Another way to look at the church as a trinity is Jesus the head, believers are the single body, and the Holy Spirit indwelling.

    The great tribulation will eliminate every sinner in the world who will not repent.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Vain rhetoric.
     
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  5. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    I must practice patience here because it seems as if I am dealing with men who have a different standard of reading words and even defining them when they open the scriptures. Logic and ordinary reasoning goes out the window. If the following words were written in the scriptures it is no telling what doctrines would be developed from them by this crowd but one thing is sure, many would not believe what it says and about whom it said it.

    JACK AND JILL WENT UP THE HILL TO FETCH A PAIL OF WATER.

    Likewise, when Ga 4:4 says Jesus Christ came in the fullness of time, made of a woman, made UNDER the law, to redeem them who are under the law that we may receive the adoption of Sons, it is just rhetoric by the apostle who wrote it. It is just rhetoric to them. It means nothing.

    They will quote the ministry of Jesus Christ before his death, burial, and resurrection as if that ministry is the same after the death, burial, and resurrection and as if nothing has changed.

    Rom10: 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Fullness of time!
    End of the Law!

    Galatians 3:23
    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    ,Galatians 3:25
    But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Before faith came!
    After Faith came!

    Galatians 3:19
    Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    Who is the seed. Do we know? Can we tell?

    Galatians 3:16
    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Logic; reason; the principle of law was in effect before the cross and the principle of faith was in effect after the cross.

    Okay. The promise came by faith and not law. What is the promise? Do we know? Can we tell?

    Galatians 3:2
    This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Galatians 3:14
    That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    Logic and reason. The promise is the Spirit.

    ,
    Galatians 3:12
    And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

    Why am I dealing with the rapture of the church in this manner. It is because the dispensational structure of the scriptures must be honored words must be believed and context must be considered if one is going to comprehend the truths of God.

    Talking to unreasonable men, who rejects the right divisions of truth that God authored, about the rapture would be like talking to me about quantum physics.

    This post has demonstrated from the scriptures a dispensational division of the workings of God in salvation.
     
    #5 JD731, Aug 5, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    The Anabaptists, the historical forerunners of the Baptist faith, held to a thousand year reign after a post-tribulation rapture.

    No one believed in a pretribulation rapture until the 1830s.

    If the pretribulation rapture is false, then it's a demonic deception to prevent Christians from preparing for the tribulation, expecting that God will bail them out before anything bad happens.

    When speaking of the tribulation, Jesus said in Matthew 24, "He who endures to the end will be saved."

    The apostles were martyred for the faith. They never expected to get bailed out.
     
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  7. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    So, with your logic and scholarship, enduring to the end of the tribulation period is the way, the truth, and the life?
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    None of that is about the tribulation, Matthew 24:29 or the rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. Sir, you here are one which seems to have a problem with logic. Keep it simple. BTW I believed in the pre-trib rapture over 50 years ago.
     
    #8 37818, Aug 5, 2021
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  9. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    And, Matthew 24:29 has absolutely nothing to do with the rapture of the church, or anything else about the church.

    You, like others on here, make statements and then throw a scripture reference out as if the reference itself proves the point you are trying to make and you want us to believe you know what you are talking about. Quote the verses from which you get your conclusions and show from the context why you think it confirms your understanding.

    Otherwise you are just spewing opinions.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So far that is all you have done.
    1 Corinthians 15:52, , ". . . at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, . . ." Matthew 24:31, ". . .with a great sound of a trumpet, . . ." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, " . . . with the trump . . . ."
     
  12. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    Why are you saying something and putting a bunch of scripture references at the end of you statements?. It beats anything I have ever seen. If you keep doing it I will put you on ignore. If there is something to see, quote it.

    And no, the elect in Matthew 24 is not the church of Jesus Christ. And enduring to the end of anything is not the way the church is saved from sin and given eternal life.
     
  13. JD731

    JD731 Active Member

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    This is a false statement.

    The last trump is the last trump of the feast of trumpets. The feast of trumpets is the 5th feast day in the 7 annual feasts of Israel. It is the first feast in the beginning of the third festival of Israel, which is the fall festival. Following are the 5 feasts of Israel that have already been fulfilled. Passover, Unleavened Bread, First-Fruits, Weeks (Pentecost). - Those which have not been fulfilled. Trumpets, 1st day of 7th month Day of Atonement, 10th day of the 7th month Tabernacles.15th day of the seventh month.

    The ceremonial law of the OT are prophecies concerning future events. The Spirit of God has occupied this age on the earth preparing a bride for Jesus Christ since Pentecost and will take her to him in the heavens at the feast of trumpets, before he comes back to deliver Israel from her tormentors.

    Because you fellows do not believe the words of the scriptures you can be easily fooled and never have any light of truth. You see the word "elect" and you presume it means you while God has never identified you as elect. You are the only one who has ever identified 37818 as being elect. Sola scriptura. Let's have scripture saying you are elect.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Why not provide the word of
    God on the matter?
    Based on what?
    Because you say this?

    You have provided no evidence that those who endure and being saved meaning what?

    Nothing.
     
    #14 37818, Aug 5, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    A pre-trib (or pre-wrath) rapture of the church is an essential part of Dispensationalism. In other words, it is a package deal. Separate a pre-wrath rapture of the church and Dispensationalism fails. This is one of the reasons why the doctrine persists. Proponents of a pre-wrath rapture place more weight on deductive reasoning rather than scriptural support. As @37818 pointed out, most of the verses that are used to defend a pre-wrath rapture are taken out of context, since they actually deal with the second coming.
     
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    For starters prove this for 1 Corinthians 15:52. ". . . In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. . . ."

    We need to take this one piece at a time. You still have provided zero evidence for a pre-trib rapture.
     
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  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, my point of view is a post trib pre wrath view. Contexts are important. What is at issue is the question of a pre-trib rapture. Needs to be dealt with one piece at a time.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, you are the one who plainly stated you would not accept any scripture in context if it conflicts with your doctrine.

    You have no credibility to declare anyone “easily fooled” or “lacking the light of truth.”

    You are deceived by a false theology and your approach to scripture, which is to ignore all scripture in context which conflicts with your false theology, makes certain you will be blind on this issue until our Lord returns.

    peace to you
     
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    If this is true anyone who lives till the end will be saved.It won't matter if they believe or not Not to mention there is no eminence of His coming. Every one will know when to expect Jesus to come. The rapture is not a coming of the Lord, His feet never touch the ground. He sends angles to gather us from the four corners of the earth. If there is no rapture How do the saints get to heaven in order for them to accompany Him at the second coming.The Bible clearly states He returns with all His Saints.
    MB
     
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Package deal sort of like being saved with out faith now thats a Pkg deal.
    MB
     
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