Who Appears at the Great White Throne?

Wow you really do like to nitpick don't you.

Exactly! He is disqualified. Paul says the same thing that he doesn't want to be a castaway after having gone the whole way and then throwing it away in the end.

You can be disqualified for a number of rules violations.

No I didn't. That is another one of your lies! I stated that those that finished the race WHILE BREAKING THE RULES could be disciplined. Again please deal in what I say, not in what you think I said.

Sure He could and He will for those that ran the race, but broke the rules along the way. It's called the Judgement Seat of Christ!

Well I'm truly sorry that you don't have eyes to see and ears to hear. It truly breaks my heart that people don't, but Scripture tells us as such.

Dying is dying not finishing the race. Of course your opportunity to participate in the race will end once a person dies, but just because someone dies does not mean they finished the race, nor does it mean they ran appropriately. You take leaps that just aren't there in Scripture.

What is absurd is how you are trying to make an earthly representation fit perfectly with Spiritual truth. It's not going to happen. That's why you have to build precept upon precept, line upon line here a little there a little. The whole story is not told in one place. You build Scripture upon Scripture.

You really have an issue with punishment don't you.

So why do you think the Lord is going to let someone sho doesn't finish the race rule and reign with Him, when they can't even accomplish what they were supposed to in this life. Talk about absurd and something that makes no sense. That would be it!

 

Here is what you said:

It is your conjectural questions that infer that infer that it is okay to sin. You said: "I mean these foliks that are saved get to the starting line but never produce fruit." What then do they procuce? What are you inferring? If it is not fruit, then it is the opposite isn't it--the works of the flesh--sin.
Read the second paragraph and see what you are inferring. Sure you put it into hypothetical question form. But I answered the same way. So why should you be offended?

I can agree to that.

You have no evidence in Scripture for that. Are you a blind follower of the Joey Faust cult. The Bible simply says that a disobedient believer will lose reward at the JSOC, and that is all. You can't read into Scripture that which is not there.

I can back up what I state from Scriptue. You back up what you say by gobbley-gook from Joey Faust. So which source is more authoritative?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

There is them that perish (are lost), and them that are saved.
That is the same as the saved and the unsaved. You can do a more detailed study if you wish, but I know that the Bible teaches this truth.

So you deny that the Holy Spirit changes a person. Incredible!

I conclude thus:
1. You deny in the operation of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life,
2. You believe in a works-based salvatioin. It is not I that believes this way but you. Salvation is by grace through faith. You are demanding works. I say quite the opposite and something totally different which you seem unable to comprehend. I didn't say anything about works. I even gave you an example. There were no works in after the thief on the cross cried out to Christ, but his life was definitely changed. Read my previous post to see how his life evidenced change. I said that a believer must evidence change in his life. That is apart from works. The fruit of the Spirit is not necessarily works. You seem to be confused.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say works; I said "change."

You were the one that started with a false premise. I am responding to your post that started with a false premise. I don't know what your talking about. Your statement again is illogical.

I can produce plenty of evidence. You repeatedly say what kind of people will enter the kingdom, will sit on thrones, will enter heaven, will lose reward, are saved or not saved. You do not know the hearts of men. Why do you infer that you do? Why are you taking the place of God. Only God knows the heart.
Understand this. The Bible says in no uncertain terms:
"The Lord knows them that are His."

It does not say:
J. Jump knows them that are the Lord's.

 

No you read my statements and inferred that on your own. Had you asked for clarification by saying something to the tune of "are you saying or are you inferring that it is okay for people to sin," then you could have understood what I was trying to say.

But I don't think you really want to understand what I'm trying to say. I believe you just want to put "your" spin on things.

Can people sin? Yes. Will they get away with it without penalty? No.

That is simply what the Bible teaches. We don't have to be slaves to sin, but that doesn't mean we won't.

Acutally there is a TON of evidence in Scripture of exactly that.

Nope. But thanks for asking. I'm not a "blind" follower of anyone unless you wanted to say I'm a blind follower of Christ, but that's really not good terminology as Christ doesn't want us to be blind.

Just so you know I had never heard of Joey Faust until recently. I discovered this Truth of Scripture before I was ever introduced to him. And I have never read his book nor have I ever listened to a sermon of his.

(Sorry James, never got around to listening to a couple of the messages you sent me )

No it doesn't. There is not a single text that says a believer will "lose reward." If there is please show it to me, because I've never seen it.

It's strikes me as hilarious that opponents of the gospel of the kingdom try to use this argument, when in fact it is the kingdom believers that keep trying to get people to let Scripture say what it says. I continue to chuckle.

Well let me make this offer to you. No one else has taken me up on it. If you can back up with Scripture what you believe and think that I am wrong then let's start a one-on-one conversation and deal with Scripture. Just PM me or email me and show me in Scripture where I am wrong. I'll await your response.

Last time I checked something had to be alive in order to perish. That is not talking about the saved and the unsaved. That is talking about the lost (perishing) and the saved. Now what was that about reading into Scripture that which was not there? You are reading lost as unsaved. But that is simply not the case. Paul is talking to believers in regard to believers lives.

YES the Holy Spirit changes a person. I NEVER denied that. Again you lie about me. Why is that? Again please show me evidence where I "typed" the Holy Spirit doesn't change a person.

They are no longer male nor female. They are no longer Jew or Greek. That is how the Holy Spirit changes a person. A person's spirit is passed from death unto life. That is how the Holy Spirit changes a person. The spirit and the soul are separated as light from darkness. That is how the Holy Spirit changes a person.

Please quit accusing me falsely!

Shouldn't there be some restrictions that a moderator can't lie about another poster without penalty?

Again more lies. Again if you are going to accuse someone of something please provide proof. Please show me where I said anyone was eternally saved based on works. You will not find that.

So I guess moderators get to say anything they want about people whether they can prove it or not huh. Well it is in fact YOU that demands works saying that a person that doesn't produce fruit isn't saved in the first place.

Your self-deception is incredible.

Here is a direct quote from you

That is works.

Wow I'm confused? So if all we are supposed to do is produce the fruit of the spirit which is not works. Then what works are we going to be judged on at the JSOC. Man you folks are all over the board.

You said change that produces fruit. That is works. Just because you deny that fruit production is work well I can't help that. I have to say that the "fruit production is not work" argument is a new one that I've never heard before.

Well I'm glad you say it is illogical, because its the exact same arugment you used on me. See that's how you folks operate. You use an argument, but when the SAME thing gets turned back on you its illogical. This just cracks me up!

Then let's see it. Again if you have evidence I've already asked once for it, so if it is so readily availble why didn't you include it in your last post? Please give me one text where I judge another specific believer.

Making general statements about Christians in general is not judging. I am not anyone's judge. I am merely stating what Scripture says. That's not judging.

So yes your accusation is baseless, but that should come as no surprise to anyone.

You're right, because Scripture tells us.

Absolutely correct, and I have NEVER said anything to the contrary or even inferred anything to the contrary as you again so falsely accuse.

Amen.

But let me just turn around the argument again. I know you'll accuse me of being illogical, but here goes.

DHK says that all Christians will rule and reign with Christ. So DHK knows the hearts of all Christians. But yet the Bible says "The Lord knows them that are His." It does not say: DHK knows them that are the Lord's.

Amen?

 

Regardless of the double talk coming from some, when one states that a Child of God will spend 1000 years in hell for sin in his or her life, and then after the 1000 years be accepted of God to live eternally with Him, that one is saying it is ok to sin.

Go ahead and live like you want is the message sent. You may go to hell for a while, but God will bring you into His eternal kingdom afterwards.

There is no Scripture to back such a foolish claim and when we ask to produce such Scripture, one constantly wants you to PM him and he will give the Scriptural proof.

He must be afraid of being shot down publically with his false doctrine because he refuses to post it in a thread for all to see.

 

By that one man's obedience many were made righteous. So why should the righteous have to go to hell?

 

Um....because we are still sinners?

 

If you are trying to tell me about racing, you should know what you are talking about first.

What did you say on page 10? Oh, yeah...

Please quit accusing everyone of misrepresenting what you say...putting words in your mouth...lying, etc. You are only embarrasing yourself, and being deliberately untruthful...a sin that can land your behind in hell for a thousand years. Whether you said "while breaking the rules" or whatever, you DID say that those who finish the race can be punished, so NO, I am not lying.

And what happens? They have no chance of winning the prize! They are not punished ABOVE AND BEYOND the paramaters of the race!

I thank God that the Holy Spirit helps me to discern between false doctrines!

Please do tell at what point in Paul's life he made that stament then, if it wasn't in regards to leaving this earth.

I'm sorry, who used the reference to running a race first?

Not particularly. I'm pretty fond of God's justice. I have an issue with heresy and false doctrine, though.

Who's putting words into who's mouth? Who said the one who doesn't finish the race will rule and reign? Surely not I! What I am saying is the one who doesn't finish the race isn't taken out back and tortured for a thousand years!

 

The flesh is what sins. If I am standing before God at the JSOC I won't have that old flesh around...will I?

 

Didn't seem to apply to the thief on the cross, did it? He lived a lifetime for the flesh, but in a single moment inherited paradise...unless you think he will be cast into the lake of fire for a thousand years, too.

 

Paul crucified his flesh, and yet he still sinned. Yet he was certain he had that crown laid up for him.

 

He went to Paradise to await the judgment. We have no way of knowing what reward (positive or negative), if any, awaits him at the JSOC.

PS. the Lake of Fire is not Hell. (Rev 20)

 

Then quit misrepresenting what I say. I see your conveniently left out a bolded part of my actual text to "make" it say what YOU wanted it to say.

If you can't see you are misrepresenting what I say you are more blind words can describe.

But just so people can see what you are doing let me point it out again for all to see. Here is what you accused me of saying:

And here is what I ACTUALLY said:

Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out those aren't the same statements. Quit misrepesenting what I say. It's not that difficult, at least for most.

I really honestly can see how you can be so self-deceived that you can lie about someone, accuse them of saying these they didn't say, believing things that don't believe and then have the gall to say I'm the one embarrasiing myself. That is just HILARIOUS :laugh:

But even if I was lying (WHICH I AM NOT - That is easy to see) by your belief it wouldn't matter anyway as I could lie all I wanted to and my place in the kingdom still awaits me. Or you might say I was never saved in the first place, which isn't true either.

Well now we can a half-hearted "well I didn't exactly say what you said" statement, but then you just keep on rolling with your non-sense.

If you say I said something that I didn't say that is LYING no matter how you want to dodge the issue. And you don't even have the excuse of accidentally doing it. You are full fledge intentional in your misrepresentations.

Paul was living a life of obedience. He was running the race. You can't apply what he says about himself to all people all the time.

That would be Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Well if I have misrepresented your beliefs I do apologize. So if that's not what you believe please share with me what happens to Christians that are found to be disobedient, unfaithful and non-overcoming. Please share with me so that I don't misrepresent you in the future.

 

There is only "one person" to be judged not two or three. You are only ONE person so you can be saved or lost but not both.

2Cor 5 says you are judged for the deeds done in the body "whether good OR evil" .

Romans 6 says that evil deeds get the judgment of hell.

There is no escaping this - but Romans 2:1-16 has the solution describing in detail BOTH the failing cases AND the successful cases.

In Christ,

Bob