Who Follows Apollos?

Could you please clarify what you mean by Lutherans follow Luther?

 

No, we believe in infant Baptism because that is what the Bible teaches.

 

There is no instance of infant baptism in the New Testament.

 

Michael, that topic has been hammered to death on this board the last couple of months. I'm sorry that you missed it, but I just do not have the energy at the moment to get back into it. Perhaps you would like to start a new thread on that topic.

I would suggest that you do a study of the catholic (ie: RCC, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, etc) understanding of Biblical Baptism to at least see where we are coming from before making goofy one line arguments like that.

This thread is about "following men" and it should stay that way.

 

Ed,

I have studied church history and theology passionately for more than twenty-five years; furthermore, I've been a member of the Episcopal Church and the United Methodist Church.

I offered the one-liner because it was sufficient; I could say a LOT more. Baptism has been the issue that I've been focused on for a very long time. After intense study, I believe infant baptism is untenable.

Now, in light of what I've just told you, maybe you'd like to retract your epithet, "goofy".

 

Tuor, good point! The issue may be that people mustn't be right about God's matters, but that they want and desire to be right. If you believe in and follow Jesus, you want to do it the right way.

As for why Lutherans are called Lutherans, it is because it is a term that was forced upon them by the Roman Catholics. It wasn't a name they chose for themselves.

Michael, well, you convinced me. If you believe it is untenable after 25 years of passionate study and church-hopping, it must be. Heck, I've never even thought about the issue, let alone study Scripture.

Your statement was correct. Jesus, the disciples, the church fathers and Christians for the last 2000 years are the goofy ones. Thanks for clearing that up with a clever one-liner I've never heard before.

 

Once again, I am disappointed in my denomination. Someone who was raised Lutheran and thinks that we don't turn to the Bible for truth, we turn to a catechism. Very sad . . . .

 

Ed,

Not Jesus and the disciples, just a few church "fathers", Catholics, and Magisterial Protestants.

And I appreciate your letting me set you straight.

Oh, there IS a possibility I might be wrong: I won't say what I once heard Howard Cosell say many years ago on Monday Night Football: "I've never been wrong; once I thought I was, but I was mistaken." (!)

 

Tuor, agreed. I hope that is a "cultural thing" within the LCMS that will end with time.

Michael, please hang around the board. I would really love to have this discussion with you at some point, but I am expecting my son to be born this week and am REALLY trying to get ahead at work!

 

Maybe this will help with the close(d) communion question.

CTCR Admission to the Lord's Supper

It has been my understanding that we Lutherans took the name Lutheran to distinguish ourselves from other groups that popped up during the reformation, because the rcc was trying to lump us all together.

When I went through confirmation class we did both catachism work and Bible work.

 

Sorry, double post.

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Disciple ]

 

Tuor:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Philippians 3:17
Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.

2 Thessalonians 3:7
For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,

2 Thessalonians 3:9
not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example.

2 Timothy 3:10
Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tuor as far as your claim that Catholic’s follow Peter. Yes, we do. St. Paul too, and the church that Jesus established. Here are some reasons why we do. When you belong to the body of Christ you are one with Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of the Body and the cornerstone of the Church. St. Paul understood this and this is why he had no trouble telling people to follow his example. He says he offers himself as a model for us to follow his example. He says to follow his teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, and perseverance. By following our fathers in faith we are following Scripture and at the same time are following Sacred Tradition.

To follow the people who are our fathers in faith is to follow Jesus Christ. St. Paul says “But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. 2 Timonthy 3:14 This means don’t just follow anybody and it doesn’t mean just read the Bible.

Catholics have no problem acknowledging that we follow Peter, Paul, and the church Jesus established because it is how Jesus taught us to follow Him. He told Peter to feed my sheep, feed my lambs, feed my sheep. He gave his authority. The body of Christ is His sheep. By following the ones who feed us, we are following Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd.

God Bless

 

Tuor:
Here is another place in Holy Scripture telling us to imitate the faith of those who lead us to Christ and speak the word of God to us. St. Paul, St. Peter, and many of the fathers of the Church have faiths that can be imitated.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hebrews 13:7
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The whole point is to follow Jesus Christ. Pick up our cross and follow Him. Not every Christian who loves Jesus Christ knows how to do this. This is why Jesus gave us a teaching Church. He gave us real people to guide and spiritually feed us. Feed my sheep, feed my lambs, feed my sheep.

God Bless

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Disciple ]