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Who killed Goliath?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Linda64, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    I guess Dwight David Eisenhower is related to "Goliath"? Talking about going off topic [​IMG]
     
  2. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Thanks to everybody's comments I enjoyed some new names.
    What we learn here is that the younger generation is not familiar with the first name of the late famous people. As time goes on, the first names are forgotten often. We remember Julius Caesar, but what is the first name for Hannibal?
    I don't know Ike's mom's name either!
     
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Dwight. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not real sure what a "fist name" is. Someone care to enlighten me?

    If you are referring to President Eisenhower, his given first name was David, not Dwight although Dwight was what his mother called him. He was named David Dwight Eisenhower. The given names, as to usage, were later reversed by the future President himself, when he entered High School.
    Ed
     
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Hannibal was the first name of Hannibal Barca, His father was Hamilcar Barca. [​IMG]

    President Eisenhower's mother was named Ida; His father was named David.
    Ed [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And Ike's wife's maiden name was Mamie Doud.
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    If I might quote Bluefalcon in a post from 2004

    2 Samuel 21:19 [LINK]

    He did a very good job explaining the difficulty.

    Rob
     
  7. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Rob,

    Actually I noticed Lahmi was connected with Beth-lehem, and there is the article "Ha" on the lahmi in 2 Sam 21:19, which is unusual but shown in 1 Sam 16:18 as meaning Bethlehemite.

    I don't understand very well the next sentences after Bethlehemite issue, written by Bluefalcon, but my comment is
    1) The Goliath killed by David in 1 Sam 17 is different from another Goliath killed by Elhanan in 2 Sam 21:19

    2) The Goliath killed by Elhanan in 2 Sam 21:19 is the same as Goliath killed by Elhanan in 1 Chron 20:5

    3) The question which remain still is about some wordings:
    Lahmi - can mean the first name of Goliath's brother.
    If both the second Goliath and the Elhanan's family lived in Bethlehem area even if they may lived there in different times, then both are correct. Goliath family might have been expelled from Bethlehem.

    4) Orgim means weavers (Strong 707),but this is mentioned once again in the same sentence 2 Sam 21:19. In that case, Elhanan's family was a weaver, lived in Bethlehem, and killed another Bethlehemite, Brother of Goliath who used a spear like a weaver's beam

    5) Yare was changed Yor in pronunciation influenced by Babylon,I think, in 1 Chronicle 20:5
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    There is still the thing about one of the 4 sons killed who was also a brother.... any thoughts?
     
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Please check your mail.

    2 Sam 21:16,

    I would not expand too much on Goliath.
    Because 2 Sam 21:16 doesn't say Goliath, but Rephaim (Iliyd Rapha) which is typical word for Giants as we see in Gen 14:5.
    So, 21:16 mentions children of Giants who may not be the brothers of Goliath but still some of the kindreds of giants family.
    Indeed I believe that such giants existed, even though Dead Sea Scroll scholars down grade the stature to 6.6 feet as LXX these days, while MT says it is almost 10 feet. If the stature of Goliath was just 6.6 feet, there was no need to mention about it so much.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Shoot, Saul musta been about 6'6". Archaeological finds from the time & place show that the average adult male was about 5'6" (Unknown if the remains found were Israeli, Philistine, or Slobbovian) & Saul stood head & shoulders taller than any other Israeli.

    Goliath was six cubits & a span tall. The traditional cubit is 18 in. length & a span is 9". This would make Goliath 9'9" tall. Now, whether this height attributed to him is a guestimate or someone had actually measured him. At any rate, he was much-taller than normal, because nowhere in Scripture is SAUL called a giant.

    I would venture to say that the Scriptural statement of six cubits & a span for Goliath is quite close if not exact. This is based upon the weight of his equipment, which was almost certainly measured, or at least examined, by the Israelis after David rocked him to sleep. The weight of a shekel is.4 of an avoirdupois ounce, a rabbi tells me. In 1 samuel 17:5, the weight of his coat of mail is given as 5K shekels. That's 125 lb, and an ordinary man simply couldn't fight carrying that kinda weight.

    His spear's head was 600 shekels. That's 15 lb! Try to use a tomato stake with a shot put on the end of it as a spear! So we see that Goliath was not just very tall, but was a powerhouse!

    The shekel was, according to the rabbi, a standard measure of weight. This is why Scripture mentions shekels of brass, iron, silver, or gold. Therefore a shekel of brass would be a larger volume than a shekel of iron, while a shekel of gold, which is almost 3 times as heavy as an equal volume of iron, would be a small quantity indeed!
     
  11. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    roby, you are correct, of course. But I didn't answer that one, because it wasn't asked.
    In His grace,
    Ed
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I did, Ed, cuz the discussion kinda begged the question.

    I don't know how the Philistines handled names, but the more I think about it, Elhanan could well have whacked Goliath Jr. or Goliath III. there was a LONG time, prolly over 30 years, between David's and Elhanan's Goliaths.

    I don't think any scribe made a mistake here, as the slaying of Goliath by David was witnesses by hundreds of people in each army...and the one slain by Elhanan woulda stood out in a crowd, even in the middle of a battle. There's no reason why they both couldn'ta had the name Goliath in their full monickers.
     
  13. DeadMan

    DeadMan New Member

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    WHOA! Unless I am misinterpretting something, you are saying the Bible contains an error?
     
  14. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Who killed Goliath?

    It was Colonel Mustard, in the library, with a smooth stone.

    Man, I'm too tired to be posting...
     
  15. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    robycop3 asked:

    How does anyone know there weren't two Goliaths?

    Aren't you reading? They both had the same sized spear. No one ever made two spears the same size. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Well, assuming you are not speaking TIC here...

    Why could not the spear have been passed down in the family? Granted, according to 1 Sam 17:51 and 21:9, David took big G's sword, but there is no mention of what happened to the spear.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And why couldn't there have been 2 spears the same size? There was no set size for a weaver's beam.

    The Philistines were skilled metal workers. I recall reading somewhere that when they & Israel weren't fighting, they made metal implements and weapons for Israel in return for certain kinds of cloth and leather. We see that in Samson's day they were charging very high prices for sharpening plowshares, etc. as they were then ruling Israel.

    They doubtlessly made custom weapons for their heroes.
     
  18. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    I think ppl like looking for ""ERRORS"" in Gods word i guess it makes them feel smart or something. But, it just shows how true God is to his word when the ""ERROR"" is uncovered with common sense.

    Just because the Bible doesn't say there are 2 Giants and 2 spears ppl assume oh there's a mistake. Welp I am glad some people have common sense and can see these things and don't have to pull out a mountain of books and articles to prove this.

    We need to get on ours knee's and ask the one that knows all. The answer will come to you but in His time. I don't question the correctness of Gods Word never have never will.
     
  19. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Did Philistine Ironsmith make only one Spear for each size ?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I think they bought them at the local 'War-Mart'.

    [​IMG]
     
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