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Whose Ared You?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by th1bill, May 26, 2018.

  1. th1bill

    th1bill Well-Known Member
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    I have not a single thought on why that article was posted but I perceive an air that is disturbing in this discussion; Why does a Rag News Article spark a discussion that comes from scripture instead of from a Seeker of the Truth?
    There is a problem in the Church today, the people bare not sold out to YHWH. In one easy to understand parallel, Everybody wants a pint of Icecream but none are willing to open their Bjlfold to pay the Price for a Pint.
    Peter 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
    2 Corinthians 5:18-21 King James Version (KJV)
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
    20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
    21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
    In Second Peter 2:9 we are called, among other things, to be a peculiar people. I realize that having gotten my GED and having only completed the Eighth Grade, I may have missed one or two of the finer points of this and that.
    But growing up rough and finishing my childhood in service to this nation I feel I have a fair grip on peculiar people, the Military is full of them.. all willing to die for their nation and many, many of us did and the rest of us live with the nightmares and the never ending questions about ourselves.
    We are called to be different from Normal People because we are called to believe Yashuah ha'Mashiah (Jesus our Savior) in the same manor as did we our fathers and mothers when we were small children. (Matt 18:3)
    Did you notice this in my second reference? [who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him] The righteousness of YHWH is clearly delineated in Exodus 20, in the Ten Commandments. These ten laws draw the most specific Word Photograph or Picture of the members of the Triune Godhead I have ever read.
    Right now, on the front end, let me explain. I work the scriptures through this Hermeneutics Filter, allowing scripture to interpret itself and to avoid lifting myself up to where I ought not to be, a space occupied by too many already, today. There is/are no scripture, collection of scriptures nor passage of scripture that can ever be understood by man without the light of all scripture shinning on it/them.
    Now, there are a number of good points of view to view scripture from and any number of them might be correct but through a Chain
    Referenced copy of the KJV and with a strong hunger to know this Elohim that threw my sins as far as the East is from the West.
    Tracking Him down through His Word I discovered that movements such as the Word of Faith, the Hew Covenant Christian and the Latter Day New Testament have tossed the Bible Yashuah taught us Christianity from.
    I have been instructed by some falling into this class that except I speak in the Tongues of Angels, I am not saved and almost without fail this is followed by an offer to teach me how to speak in those tongues.
    I always ask these how powerful is the Elohim they worship and like well taught children in Primary School, they spit out the answer they have never, ever, tried to combine the idea of them needing to teach me how to communicate with the only Omnipotent YHWH. But when i assure them YHWH can will that I never speak an other word but in Tongues, there is nothing, not a single thing I can do to make it otherwise.
    Alright, these are the ramblings of one Peculiar Old Man that has had his Spiritual Ear pierced, I am a Bond Slave of the King. (Exodus 21:1-6) I do not pretend to know anything about cut-off points and will not try to discuss such Heresies. But from the day the LORD saved me and forgave all that trash I could not get clear of without Him, I have been Homesick and I have yet to ever be there.
    After I was saved I was led of our Elohim into a few Ministries and have watched Him used the few things Has instructed me in and, just, marveled. This On line Ministry, I believe, has been the most fruit-bearing but the numbers belong to the Christ who empowers me and I am His to use, are you?
     
  2. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Sir, that was an interesting read. I think your point is that people are not sold out to YHVH, "I Am that I Am," the Living God of the bible, history, Creation, the Law, and both covenants; Who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ, our resurrected Lord and God at His right hand.

    I'm just trying to unpack things theologically. To be honest, most people I have known in the church face-to-face all segment God Our Father into two people, the OT God of wrath and Law and the NT God of Grace and love. When I was in Moderate Evangelicalism, that was the norm. Of course, it is false, because God does not change. I now better understand Who God is because of your post, thank you.

    Do I understand you correctly?

    It seems to me, you are saying most Christians lack a good idea of Who God is and what this means for their lives?
     
    #2 Steven Yeadon, May 26, 2018
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Glad to see you Bill:)
     
  4. th1bill

    th1bill Well-Known Member
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    Hello EW&F


    One of the greatest tragedies I have discovered while being led of the Ruach (the Holy Spirit) is the lack of complete devotion, to revere YHWH. [footnote: This year My wife and daughter secured me an Imitation Leather copy of the Hallelujah Scriptures, my last Bible on the Earth, I pray. The correct enunciation of Elohim's Name is much easier to pronounce for native Germans but can be learned. To begin with Volkswagon is pronounced volks and the k is spit out, vah-gone. In Paleo Hebrew the h, k and ch are pronounced as the spit out, glutteral K. Yach(K) oo-vach is what my Mesianic Jewish Referance taught me, it is originally God's Name and I like using His real name,]

    You're right, of course, a mid eighties by the Barna Droup has proven a little less than two percent of the faithful and a little more than one percent of the combined, cross denominational American Church Roll are likely saved, a frightening stat. I am happy to hear you have begun the Pilgrimage I began on the first day of 1990. Just after I sang Aulde Lang Sine for a bar full of drunks. Seek after YHWH with all your heart, will and strength with prayer and you will stand amazed here on Earth.
     
  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    How do you arrive at that statistic? I myself am very concerned a number of non-Charismatic non-Mainline evangelical Protestants may not be saved. The propensity of many evangelicals to practice sin as a way of life leads me to believe this, after reading Barna's research and reflecting on the book "the scandal of the Evangelical conscience."
     
  6. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for your stories. I will say that my journey as a Christian began two years ago when I really encountered the Fear of the Lord. It was terror of Him, and what He could do to me, that drove me to salvation after being a Moderate Evangelical for twelve years. I was consumed by terror of my fate if I died for a month, before finally letting down all my guards and telling Him that I would believe that Jesus was Lord and had been resurrected on blind faith. My whole life changed after that night two years ago. It was a magical experience in that I had an overnight change of my mental state. It is like my mind had been transformed at that moment of faith the previous night.

    I pray for the understanding and wisdom that comes from the Holy Spirit almost every day now, and I seek after His righteousness. More so lately as I have realized spiritual warfare never gives you a vacation. I had tried to take a breather from fighting sin only to realize it left me compromised and seared my conscience. I also seek after His Kingdom, but I still don't understand how to best use my talents in service. Instead, I have concentrated on understanding what His will is for me as well as growing in the knowledge of the bible.
     
  7. th1bill

    th1bill Well-Known Member
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    As I understand it the Barna folks did a multi-choice unsigned exam to get as honest an answer as possible. The Faithful were so certified by the pastor or priest in all denominations of the Christian Faith excluding, I believe the JWs and the Mormons. The Pastor nominated only people that attended no less than 3 services a week.. that is just about 10 to 16% and about half or better than that is the Church Staff. If we extrapolate those numbers int5o the Church body that is full of people that come to Church only on Sunday Morning to put in an appearance that their Auto Repair or Law Office does more business the percentage drops considerably. Add in the fakes that are there yo make a Pick Up and again gnf percentage s dropping I could go on with the Fake Christian catagories but you get te idea.

    The mostly yes or no checkbox test asked only questions that affect our Salvation. Questions such as:
    Do you believe in the Virgin Birth?
    Do you believe Jesus died for your sins?
    Do you believe God is omnipotent?
    Do you believe Jesus was God in the Flesh?
    All yhey asked, as it was explained to me, were basic faith questions.
     
  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Barna calls those that pass their seven point doctrinal test evangelicals, they are very rare among Christians in America at around 7% of the American population.

    Here is the 2016 version of what you likely saw:

    The State of the Church 2016 - Barna Group

    From the website:

    Barna uses several of these to identify key faith groups in America, including “born again Christians,” “evangelical Christians” and those who are “Bible-minded.” The largest of these groups are born again Christians, which make up roughly one-third of the population (35%). These individuals have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and believe that, when they die, they will go to heaven because they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. The next largest group are those considered Bible-minded, who make up about one-quarter of the population (23%). They believe the Bible is accurate in all the principles it teaches and have read the Scriptures within the past week. Finally, the small (7%) but influential group of evangelicals are those who meet the born again criteria plus seven other conditions (detailed below), which are made up of a set of doctrinal views that touch on topics like evangelism, Satan, biblical inerrancy and salvation..

    Born again: Have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and believe that, when they die, they will go to heaven because they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.

    Evangelical Christian: Meet the born again criteria plus seven other conditions. These conditions include saying their faith is very important in their life today; believing they have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians; believing that Satan exists; believing that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth; asserting that the Bible is accurate in all that it teaches; believing that eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works; and describing God as the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. Being classified as an evangelical is not dependent upon church attendance or the denominational affiliation of the church attended. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as “evangelical.”

    Bible-minded: believe the Bible is accurate in all the principles it teaches and have read the Scriptures within the past week.
    That said, I understand your perspective that those who adopt more moderate or liberal theology aren't saved. I was a moderate evangelical and I know I was not saved back then. The problem though, for me, is that there is yet another test to apply to evangelicals. Do people exhibit a changed life in which they make a practice of righteousness instead of making a practice of sin and rebellion? Barna's polls on evangelicals lead me to believe a significant sized group of evangelicals may have right beliefs but lack the works of a living faith. However, I truly doubt any of these disobedient evangelicals would ever proclaim such sin to others except in anonymous polling.
     
    #8 Steven Yeadon, May 28, 2018
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  9. th1bill

    th1bill Well-Known Member
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    I would that the 35% number were true but find it extremely difficult to believe say so Christians that bear the fruit if the Deceiver thinly covered with pretense. Yashuah taught us to get the log out of our eye (sin out of our lives) and then to discern their standing in the Church. (Judge the fruits of men to know them, not to condemn any for the same sin we were formally, also, guilty of) Now, as I understood it the survey in the eighties was anonymous that the most accurate results possible. And even then, there is the element that will lie and who knows that percentage? And having taught Adults and having had the bulk of the class move out of the Church because I did a series from scripture teaching it is possible to live a Holy Life, I cannot believe that number, especially when I recall the scripture that the path to Heaven is narrow and straight.
     
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