Featured Why Church doesn't fit most people

First of all, the example of you coming to a church as a dirty guy who was drunk (that's what happens when you drink a pint of whiskey) is far different than the example you site with your family.

With the first, I'd move you away from the building, let someone sit with you until you're able to leave. I don't think I have any biblical responsibility to care for a guy who is drunk other than make certain he doesn't hurt himself.

With the 2nd, you seem to have had people caring for your family. You mention it was a small town. They did help your family.

You really don't know what most churches are doing in local outreach. Churches don't usually publish what they're doing. Many churches have entered into partnership with organizations that help such as food banks.

As a church, we don't tell everyone what we're doing. We don't help walk ins because from my experience the walk ins are simply driving down the main road that goes in front of our church and stop at every church where someone is there and give a sob story that falls apart the moment you ask any questions.

We have been burnt by using our limited funds on people who really don't need help or will need help every month and we end up being their ATM. So we help those in our church and help financially with an organization that brings together a larger group to help those in need.

 

IMO, the article referenced is addressing the whole issue of why church does not "fit most people" from an unbiblical world view. No one, naturally speaking is "church inclined." We are all depraved sinners alienated from God and are at enmity with God. The very notion of trying to market the church so that the lost will come to church, based on ploys for the "inclined" and "non-inclined" is nonsense. A truly regenerated person is made, by the grace of God alone (and not our cleverness) utterly "inclined" to the church.

 

Fundamentally, the church is supposed to be an outpost of the Kingdom of God on earth where persons who are engaged disciples of Jesus (those who are actively learning to live as He lived) engage in community. Within that community, training in righteousness, encouragement, support, and good works develop as a natural outgrowth of what is going on in the lives of individual disciples and the local expression of the Kingdom (Reign) of God.

All of the talk about music, leadership styles, song choices, projectors, Sunday Schools, church polity, buildings, etc. is secondary to the primary mission as stated above. All of the secondary issues need to support and enhance the primary mission of the church - to make disciples and represent the Kingdom of God.

Unfortunately, there are not many churches in the United States that have a strong discipleship program - that is, teaching its members how to obey the commands of Jesus. I have yet to see a class on "How to Love Your Enemies" presented in a church of any stripe. For what it is worth, I am seriously thinking of teaching one next month, but I don't feel like I have mastered that ability yet.

 

I believe Jesus would have done just what our church did--she said she was hungry and needed food, and we offered her food. She turned it down and wanted cash, saying cooking wasn't her trip and that they preferred to eat in restaurants.

Now, mind you, that was standing by the food and being offered use of the kitchen to fix some plates and then to take some with her.

The evangelical churches in our town collectively offer a soup kitchen, food banks, clothes closets, housing help, and even a free medical clinic.

But what we are finding is that since pot was legalized we either have to know the family well to offer money, or else just offer those tangible things.

Otherwise the money goes to pot.

 

Yes--I figured that was the scripture in mind.

I just wanted to point out that while it says to give to those that ask of you, it does not say WHAT to give. In the case yesterday, the woman asked for food. Food was offered. Food was turned down and money requested to purchase food.

At that point it was apparent she wasn't after food, and we weren't about to fund a stop down the street for pot.

The scripture that came to our minds was "silver and gold have we none, but such as we have we give to thee." We are a poor congregation comprised of mostly poverty level people, many recovering addicts. We offer what we can: tangible help, love, Jesus, and help with addictions.

 

Where better to reach the Church...than in a church?

God bless.

 

Find the remnants of a New Testament Church as described in the Book of Acts. They are not without a Comforter, the pillar and ground of The Truth, preserved through the gates of hell, as promised.

God is faithful--even when we are not.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

Moses did not want to go either. God took care of that. Then there is Jonah. He took the stubborn route. Whatever it takes.

Put it all on the altar. God will take care of the rest.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

I hear you my brother and I asked the same of God when our church was disbanded. You can read a little of my story when you asked when I was saved. That being said I lost my wife, I lost my church but I never lost my God. He just sent me in a different direction. He needed to show me how great he really is. I married a woman outside my faith. A believer but not of the faith and doctrine I grew up in. Over the years with her I came to the realization that her people were also Gods people. She was raised in church just like I was and God was first in her life. She wanted a godly man I wanted a godly wife and God bless us to see each other in that light. But God Why Me?... You are there for a reason if your heart is pulling you to these folks... You are suppose to be where you are or you wouldn't have been sent there... God does have a reason and you are in my prayers that you will soon find out that reason. The minister of my church had a painting on his wall of a man in a row boat with this saying... Which I pass on to you... "Pray And Row Towards Shore.".... Brother Glen

 

If we look at it as in terms of the right fellowship and the wrong fellowship, then we might as well give up marriage as well. In marriage it is not finding the right one...it is being the right one, lol.

Obviously we would not want to join a fellowship that is blatantly heretical or unorthodox, but the truth is that there is no fellowship that is 100% correct in doctrine. If most of us joined a denomination we tend to look askance at, chances are, when we come to understand why those people embrace the doctrine they, while we might not ourselves embrace it (because of course we know better), we might be less inclined to question their salvation.

And if what others think of you comes before your obligation to the Lord, then it is your motives for going to "church" you might question. And we do have, I believe, an obligation to the Lord to have somewhere we consider a meeting place for his people. It could be a home group, for instance, but, personally I am grateful to have a facility where I can go to worship, and not have a lot of people coming to my house. My grandfather's faith did that, and chances are I would, if it were not for their doctrine, attend such an assembly. As far as taking on the responsibility for what that would entail, well, call me lazy, lol. Maybe I would change my view if I were actually in such a setting, I don't know.

While I credit most who go on forums and meet with other Christians to stand a bit above the average believer, because I think they show they are concerned about learning about the Lord and do enjoy the fellowship of other believers, I would reiterate that this type of interaction should not be confused with personal and face to face interaction with the people of God. It is, as I said before, what I believe to be a training ground for us in regards to interaction among believers. There are some negative aspects that can arise, of course, but when we set our goal as learning to interact with others, when it comes time to interact with the world we are less likely to be like the world.

There is also an accountability that arises that we do not have when we go it alone. I have had several periods in my walk where I was disenchanted with fellowships, but the consequences of not having a home church became very apparent to me. It's a little difficult to explain, or perhaps I am just hesitant to explain, but I can see a difference between my life when I do and when I don't.

As I said before, the "Dones" are, I think, a dangerous concept to what Scripture describes concerning believers and how they fellowshipped. I think we are a little pampered here in the states, and if we lived in a country where the liberty to openly and publicly meet with other believers is taken for granted, IF we were to lose that, then the old saying "Don't know what you got until it is gone" would take on a cutting meaning for us.

And what would we tell those we witness to? Where would we direct them? To a forum? That is another aspect of having a home church, in that we are not promoting ourselves, in the sense it is kind of like, "Don't take my word for it, come on down and hear the word preached." If those we witnessed to did embrace the Gospel, and begin to read the Bible, one of the first things they may ask is "Well, how come you don't fellowship like I see it described in Scripture?"

It may be, my friend, that for some attendance may not be their thing. But, I have a hard time reconciling that mentality with a traditional view. And maybe that's my problem, too traditional. But I think for the most part, we do need to have a base of operations that we can direct converts and prospective converts to. It takes the focus off of us, I feel. A Pastor establishes an authority that perhaps many, particularly those who know us, might be more inclined to listen to. My brother was a nominal Catholic for years, because...we are Irish, and we had relatives that were Catholic. For years I witnessed to him, gave him tracts, and talked to him about what I saw as error in Catholic Doctrine. It was not until he came, mostly of necessity (we were putting his Kids through a Christian School at my church), and heard my Pastor preach that he began to regularly attend a fellowship which was Baptist, rather than Catholic. He said, "He's the first one that made any sense to me." Now we both know that it was not a matter of the other preachers I dragged him to listen to didn't make sense, it was a matter of his heart responding. The point is that while he would not listen to me, nor open his heart to what I had to say, at the right time the Lord placed someone in his path that correlated to the work the Lord was doing in his heart. That doesn't mean I think that is the end of the story, or that I think attendance is going to radically change his life, but...it's a good start.

Sorry for going on so long, hadn't intended to do so. Just hope to encourage you not to give up on fellowship, I think there is a fellowship out there for you, and everyone, which in my view compliments the work the Lord is doing in our lives. My history of church-hopping ended when the Lord, I feel, spoke to my heart about the pride which contributed to that hopping. I too was looking for the perfect church, and they had better conform to my expectations. I have since learned that I simply asked too much out of people who were just as fallible as myself. I learned that my opinion of myself was over-exaggerated, lol.

So while I can understand fully why some drop out, as a general issue I see it as dangerous, and detrimental to the cause of Christ. We can criticize "modern worship," but as long as the doctrine is sound and there is sound leadership, I think we can benefit from corporate worship, if only to learn a lesson in humility.

God bless.

 

Do you not see a problem with associating with people who "don't want church?" lol

We don't lead our spiritual lives based on others, my friend. Whether you go to an assembly or not is between you and God, it's not a group decision.

And blaming the fellowship the man who committed suicide attended makes very little sense. Is this a regular occurrence in that fellowship? Is suicide a common event among it's members?

So too, with that man, it had no corporate tenor, it was a decision made by the man himself, an unequalled selfish decision, which I am sure you will agree...was not approved of by his wife. So let's lay the blame where it lies, and not use this as a reason why people should not fellowship with other Christians in an assembly.

Are you Moses? Have you taken upon yourself the role of spiritual leader of whoever it is you have in mind? Is your theological understanding justification to take what seems, forgive me, a condescending attitude towards...other Christians? Do you not see the hostility these words carry? You will be vocal and disruptive? Why? Could you tell me the reason in a little more detail, so I can better understand how you have already set your heart against people...you don't know?

How about you, my friend? Where did you decide your personal relationship with the Lord was based on even past experiences in and out of fellowship?

I'm going to say, and I hope you understand it is said out of concern, that I sense anger in you. Am I right?


God bless.