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Why did God create the Universe?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Feb 16, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We know that Gen 1 creation story does not include Heaven of God's aboad because of Job 38:7 when some beings already existed and reacted with creation . So Why did God create the physical universe if Heaven already existed?
     
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I don't know; he never told me.
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to go to Heaven or do you prefer to stay here? and why?
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He wanted to do that, in order to show off Himself to His created beings, and in order to have a place in which flesh and blood creatures would then be able to exist in.
     
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    He can anything, why could he not do that in Heaven, Why the separation?
     
  6. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Based on what God has chosen to reveal of Himself, the act of creating things is in His nature.

    Because while God is inherently loving,inherently just, inherently perfect, He wished to display those attributes.

    And that's about as far as Scripture takes me, anything else and I'm just making stuff up.
     
  7. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Let's be careful here...not that you're on thin theological ice--but let's be careful about what we say God can and cannot do.

    There are some things that God clearly cannot do. God cannot cease to be God, and in fact, He cannot do anything that violates His essential nature, because then He would cease to be God.

    God cannot make another of Himself, because...well, see above.

    So the obvious, simplest answer is: because He wanted to. For His own pleasure and according to the counsel of His own will.

    Wandering any further down that philosophical rabbit hole is probably unproductive, and perhaps even dangerous.
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    you are right, we have made a lot up and ignored a lot .
    So why are we separated from God? Adam? Why was Adam and Eve here?
     
  9. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    The answer to your first question is found in Genesis 3, the narrative of the Fall of Man. The short answer is the imputed sin of Adam, which could only be negated by the imputed righteousness of Christ Jesus, the Second Adam.

    As to your second question: no one knows for sure why God, in eternity past, chose a course of action that would require God the Father to pour out His wrath on God the Son. In fact many of the explanations one finds ignore or misunderstand the nature of God: His omnipotence, His omniscience, His omnipresence. So any conclusion at which you arrive must account for those attributes of God.

    For example, the death of Christ on the cross cannot have been "Plan B". Had Adam (whose sin doomed his offspring and separated him and all his descendants from God) not sinned, God would not have had to redeem His people. You'll hear some people--most of them are heretics, but some of them are just seriously misguided who actually claim this. It is impossible when viewed with regard to what we know about God.

    An argument could be made that God created this course of events because it is the path that most glorifies Himself. This is sound reasoning, but cannot and purposely does not address the nuts and bolts of the concept.

    All that to say...I don't know, but I'm glad He did.
     
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    What if Satan had not sinned? Where would we be?
     
  11. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Why did God want to created a separate place from Heaven? What was He doing? Why was this necessary?
     
  12. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    I don't know, what do you think?
     
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Lucifer would still be in Heaven but instead he is here, on earth according to Job

    Jde 1:6
    And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    2Pe 2:4

    For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    How can they be in hell, if they are here, Jesus even talked to one in the NT

    This is not hell ot eternal punishment , but Tataroo, the innermost most secure keep of the Greek dead adode.

    Was this place created to hold the fallen angels?
     
  14. poor-in-spirit

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    Sorry brother but these ideas are counterintuitive to God's Word which describes His Nature very well. Remember He is Holy, Righteous and cannot sin. Wouldn't you agree that Jesus taught quite clearly that to "plan sin" is "sin"? To imagine that God planned the sins and fall of satan, with a third of the angels and then created man with the same plan to sin and fall is egregious error. It makes God conclusively the author of sin. This idea although popular among "group think" sects is as far from Scriptural as any idea can get.
     
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  15. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    You preset the problem with current teaching.

    There has to be a different explanation that does not fault God
     
  16. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    No.

    I did not say that God caused anyone to sin. In fact in a previous post I stated that it was impossible for God to do anything counter to His essential nature.

    I said that God cannot have a "Plan B". Christ's death on the cross and all that led to it and all that is derived from it, must have been part of God's plan from eternity past.

    The Lamb was slain before the world was created (Revelation 13:8). So that means that the sacrifice preceded the transgression.

    Thus the current state of the world is in fact "Plan A".
     
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  17. PastoralMusings

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    Romans 11:33-36 through no necessity God created all things for His glory.
     
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  18. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    God is glorified by redeeming sinners. not just creating, He could have created more than the unuverse in Heaven Why the separation of two parts?
     
  19. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Why are water and land different? God created the Heavens and the Earth and pronounced the result "good".

    He alone determined that there would be an earth, air, space and heaven and he pronounced the separation of the domains as "good".

    I'm not sure you can find a better biblical or philosophical answer than that.

    Because He wanted it that way is, essentially, the answer to all your questions.
     
    #19 supersoldier71, Feb 16, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  20. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    very circular, You do not have a better answer because we have not been taught one. I was not either

    He pronounced them good according to His purpose not morally good

    Jesus said plainly this is a prison, unless Jesus ministry was not for everyone.
     
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