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Why Did the Geneva Bible Lose its Primacy?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 10, 2002.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    English translations come and go, but so loved was the Geneva Bible by the born again believers circa 1600 that it was the Bible of choice brought to the New World by the Pilgrims. Not the KJV.

    Yet by 1675 the KJV (4th revision by then) had become more accepted and popular. I have some ideas as to "why", but will wait to hear your thoughts.
     
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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  3. wjrighter

    wjrighter New Member

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    boy howdy - dr.bob thought i had you there for a second;1600-1611; but according to my trusty
    encyclopedia, pilgrims got here around 1620, so much for my theory,guess they wern't ready for kjv yet.....bill
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    There is a simple reason why the KJV became the Bible of the people and it is part of the reason why the King James Version was made. It was to be a Bible for the people and the authorized version to be read from the pulpit by assent of the King, the head of the Anglican Church. Naturally it gained popularity for this reason. It was in the current tongue, and it was everywhere.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. OldBibles

    OldBibles New Member

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    I came across your post and was quite interested since I collect old Bibles and have several Geneva's, two of which are referred to as "Pirate versions". This name is due to this version being outlawed by the Crown. The general title pages of the Pirate versions are all dated 1599 and claiming to be printed in London. But these Bibles were actually printed in Amsterdam and Dort. The dates vary from around 1617 to at least 1678. I have one copy which has bound in books (Psalms, genealogies, Common Book of Prayer) which are dated 1678. Presumably there could be Geneva's printed after this date. My point is that when the church of England decided to replace/remove the Geneva Bible in 1568 it did so by printing the Bishop's Bible which was soundly rejected by the general population. So when another attempt was made with the printing of the KJV, the Anglian church leaders and the Crown had justifiable concerns that the KJV would meet the same fate. So to insure the acceptance of the KJV the Crown subsidized its printing and when this did not get the desired results they outlawed printing of the Geneva. But the Puritans/Pilgrims and associated folk still would not accept the KJV and that is when printing of the "Pirate Version" was initiated in Amsterdam and Dort. I am told that in an effort to finally eliminate the use of the Geneva that the Geneva side notes were finally included in the KJV. This occurred about 1675 and of course they were edited to remove any references to the Pope being the "Antichrist" and all other anti-Catholic notes. Also this gave the KJV the same "look" as the people expected from their Geneva.
     
  6. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Bibles without the Apocrypha were banned in 1615 (the Geneva Bible being an obvious target), although the Geneva Bible itself was not banned until 1637.

    But it is interesting that Cromwell and the Puritans -- who preferred Geneva -- did not re-introduce the Geneva Bible during the two decades of the Protectorate, when they well could have. Anyone know why not?

    OldBibles: Ran across this paper on pirated printing being run into England from Holland:

    http://www.ifla.org/IV/ifla64/051-132e.htm
     
  7. OldBibles

    OldBibles New Member

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    To rsr:
    Thanks for the link to the website. It had some information that I was unaware of. You bring up an interesting question concerning Cromwell and the Puritans. It looks like they would have attempted to at least allow printing of the Geneva to continue. One of the strange things about one of the 1599 Pirate versions that I have obtained recently is that it is printed with 2 general title pages. This allowed the folks who used them to select the one that suited their situation the best. One appeared to be a standard 1599 Geneva title page. The other matched the early KJV's. I guess they thought the "Bible police" wouldn't know enough to tell the difference in the actual text. Of course this is just speculation on my part.
     
  8. OldBibles

    OldBibles New Member

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    Dr. Bob wrote:
    &gt;Yet by 1675 the KJV (4th revision by then) had &gt;become more accepted and popular. I have some &gt;ideas as to "why", but will wait to hear your &gt;thoughts.
    So Dr. Bob, what were your ideas as to why?
     
  9. 2Timothy4:1-5

    2Timothy4:1-5 New Member

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    Somewhat 'off topic' but anyways...

    Jim1999 stated, in regards as to why the KJV became the people's bible...

    Thus the popularity of many of today's bibles that aren't KJV; they're in the current tongue.

    2Timothy
     
  10. JonHenry

    JonHenry New Member

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    I have several theories, but I am not sure which to be dogmatic about:

    1. The Geneva was horded by a group of unpleasant people, who made it increasingly less popular by claiming it was the only Word of God.
    2. People realized the Geneva wasn't the Word of God the minute the KJV1611 was published. I.e., the "strong delusions" were lifted.
    3. Peter Ruckman travelled back in time and preserved the Word from the Geneva heresy. He did it for our good.
    4. The Geneva Bible did not actually exist! It was fabricated by the Lockman Foundation to say "See, there can be other versions."

    Please, I'm only joking!
    jh
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Geneva Bible was extremely *anti-monarchial and *pro-reformed doctrine. It was opposed from the get-go by English monarchy.

    So King James authorizes a new translation that does
    *NOT have marginal notes in it that were opposed to the divine right of kings
    *NOT have marginal notes in it that promoted calvinism
    *INCLUDE language that would not offend the Church of England
    *OUTLAW Geneva Bible and forbid its use in churches

    Hence the Pilgrims, in anti-government snit, would not CONSIDER taking a government-paid-for and endorsed translation. But within 50 years there were very few copies of the Geneva even available. The King James (whatever revision it was on) was pretty much the only alternative.

    BTW, the KJV was NOT EVER in the "common tongue". Read the preface of the KJV; THAT is in the common tongue. The odd ecletic blend of language in the KJV itself, the "thees, doest," et al were intentionally chosen.
     
  12. jcrowe

    jcrowe New Member

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    So was the KJV made for only political reasons? (Starts a fire & runs :D )
     
  13. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Aren't lost people (the Church of England and the King) under the influence of Satan?

    (throws gasoline and oil into the fire :D )

    [ November 14, 2002, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Preach the Word ]
     
  14. Siegfried

    Siegfried Member

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    But the "thees" "thous" "knowests" etc. make the KJV sound much more spiritual. I believe these spiritual words are further confirmation that the KJV is the pure Word of God.

    Haven't you all ever noticed what great Christians are those who use these spiritual words when they pray aloud?
     
  15. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    [​IMG] :D [​IMG] :D [​IMG]

    And someone recently said I should be called the comic here!!
    [​IMG] :D [​IMG]
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Man, I thought I was trying to teach in incorrigibles something here, but didn't realize I was the straight man for a bunch of comics! [​IMG]

    Actually appreciate the good comments and insights. And I still dare you to actually read the intro to the AV1611 and see that it is not the same language as the "thou mayest" that we read in the text.
     
  17. Pastork

    Pastork New Member

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    I would very much like to read the preface to the original 1611 KJV. Does anyone know where I can read or download a copy on the internet?

    Pastork
     
  18. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This site has both the dedication to James and the message from the translators to the reader, which is a very interesting document indeed (especially to KJVO folks.)

    It appears the spelling has been modernized, but the grammar has been retained. Notice that in the dedication, "your" is used throughout.

    http://sharpsword.tripod.com/kjv/kjv.html

    [ November 15, 2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  19. Pastork

    Pastork New Member

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    rsr,

    Thanks for the link. I have gone there and printed the preface to the 1611 KJV for futher study.

    To anyone who may be interested,

    E-Sword has recently included the notes from the original Geneva Bible to its list of commentary downloads.You can check out this free bible study software program at http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html .

    Pastork
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thoughts but where did God fit into all the underhanded skullduggery by men. I think God preserved the KJV as the one for his people and the Geneva went into history as it served its purpose... As all the other translations before them... If not it would today be ancient history but the KJV is still around and going strong since 1611... Another miracle of God... "God open the king of England's eyes"... The dying word of William Tyndale!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
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