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Featured Why Do Men Hate God's Sovereignty in Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    so a lost man's motive to save a child from drowning is wicked. You, sir, are irrational. So in a reactionary act to save a life, a wicked man says, "oh yea, I'm gonna be on TV tonight!" Everytime. You let your theological framework of lunacy dictate your every statement. Very sad. Christ can set you free, my friend.
     
    #41 JonShaff, Dec 14, 2017
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Truth is you don't know much about God at all.
    MB
     
    #42 MB, Dec 14, 2017
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Please show that in scripture.
     
    #43 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
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  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    That’s a provocative statement! Actually provocative and arrogant. This man is studied and has intellectual prowess and has dedicated his life to the Lord yet you discredit him!?! Please tell me, what are your academic and theological credentials?
     
    #44 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    Oh! I just realized you were probably talking about the man who saved the child from drowning, not the man plowing his field.

    I can't know the man's motive for saving the child. I hope it is what anyone would do. But I do know that God says the heart is wicked so I cannot discount the possibility there was an ulterior motive.
     
    #45 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Men wish to steal God's glory, and that is the essence of sin.

    I understand because I used to be among those who did the same thing. I knew nothing of grace until I saw that God chose a sinner like me to be His son.

    It boggles the mind how people think that God left the salvation of men up to chance.
     
    #46 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So you feel that an atheist person can not be an honorable and decent person without being a saved individual?!? Conversely I can show you people who claim Jesus who are dirty rotten scoundrels in their day to day lives. Am I to conclude they are phony Christians in name only?
     
    #47 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I have always gone by the dictum “you will know them by their fruit.”
     
    #48 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Does water decide to be wet and do flowers decide to bloom? :Biggrin

    So how do sinners decide to become saved? The function & order of life is because of Gods choice.:Wink
     
    #49 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    On this point, I would differ from you.

    My Christianity is based on the righteousness of Christ, not me. (Which I know full well you understand) Since my righteousness is foreign, and I am a filthy rotten sinner, I know for a fact that there are many, many unsaved men who are better husbands than I, are better neighbors than I, are better at caring for the poor than I.

    I'm not threatened by the fact that there are unsaved men who are morally superior to me because my weakness is covered by His strength. In short, I need a Savior. This is not theoretical. I NEED a Savior.
     
    #50 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
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  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. I agree. My being saved doesn't make me better than the unsaved. It just makes me saved.

    So, what do you disagree with?
     
    #51 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting, as paul addresses that in Romans about how we should not try to second guess Him and His ways, correct?
     
    #52 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2017
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  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Did Moses hit the rock wit his staff once or twice?
     
    #53 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2017
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Of course unsaved people can act in a decent and honorable way.

    I know several of them.

    I don't know. I think any Christian can be carnal. But I am not qualified to judge their salvation.

    Yes, a tree is known by its fruit. But fruit is not always obvious. I had an olive tree in my back yard in San Diego. The tree was over 15 years old before it bore fruit. But it was still an olive tree. :)
     
    #54 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
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  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    It looked like the only explanation you had for a man doing a good act would be an ulterior motive, and I would agree that in many, many cases, that is true, but I don't think it always is.
     
    #55 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
  16. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, I didn't understand your question.
     
    #56 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No, it's perfectly understandable.
     
    #57 InTheLight, Dec 14, 2017
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He sinned against God, by taking the glory for himself!
     
    #58 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2017
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul point about the Potter and the Clay!
     
    #59 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2017
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  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Christ help us, we all do!
     
    #60 thatbrian, Dec 14, 2017
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