Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

I heard that there were a lot of Chinese, some from "Luhan" as Biden called it, in Italy and that everyone smoked and so they were in not too good of health anyway. Makes me wonder if the marijuana smokers were be affected by this Chinese flu?

 

From the article:

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions. Experts have also warned against making direct comparisons between countries due to discrepancies in testing.

Martin McKee, professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says that countries do not yet have a good indication of how many mild infections they have.

If further testing finds more asymptomatic cases spreading undetected, the mortality rate will drop.​

There is a lot going on with this and details are important. Dr. Birx noted that Italy's population is 7-8 years older than that of the US. Without a lot more data and details, accurate comparison between countries is not really possible, and may never be. Politics will play a huge role for as long as possible.

 

Italy – 124,632Cases and 15,362 Deaths @ 12.3% Death Rate

UK – 41,903 Cases and 4,313 Deaths @ 10.2% Death Rate

Spain- 126,168 Cases and 11,947 Deaths @ 9.4% Death Rate

France – 89,639 Cases and 7,560 Deaths @ 8.4% Death Rate

USA – 311,357 Cases and 8,452 Deaths @ 2.7% Death Rate (growing daily)

Yep, just another flu. Many people that die had co-morbidities anyway so we should let this run it course and reach 2/3rds of the of the world’s population to settle the matter with herd immunity so the economy can return to normal and Aaron can get back to his donuts.

 

The death rate has to be calculated from recovered cases and unreported cases. Italy is a special case because they listened to WHO, hugged the Chinese, put their hospital overflow in nursing homes, and were declined help from the EU as well as having more elderly and a broken socialist system. One can only imagine the disaster if Hillary had been elected. The French have been using the malaria drug very successfully to treat their victims, as they ignored the FDA and CDC and went ahead.

 

You are delusional with this wishful thinking about all these asymptomatic cases that change the numbers and your motives and concern for others is questionable. You are on a fools errand that is dangerous and careless and it is based on ignorance and extremely poor logic..

 

Currently 95% of those tested are showing that they are negative for the virus. So much for the magically high numbers of immune people.

Soon we will be doing a high number of testing for antibodies and those who are immune will be able to safely get back into the workforce. Also once the mediation of social distancing takes effect we will be to the point that we can test new infections, isolate and contain to dramatically slow the spread.

Until then to let our guard down is insanity!

 

testing is usually reserved for symptomatic people or close prolonged exposures to confirmed cases. Pcr tests check if you are currently infectious (we call it shedding the virus) but not if you are immune (that is a different test - serology). So the number of cases of immune people with no symptoms is an unknown.

In areas where lots of asymptomatic people were tested (s.korea, the town of Vo in Italy) we get some ideas of asymptomatic carriers. They were asymptomatic at the time of testing but need follow up to see if they remained asymptomatic which is an expensive manual process that is hard to devote resources to in the middle of a pandemic.

Estimates vary a lot (30-50%) because we don’t have good data on this. Widespread serology testing could also help to narrow down this number.

 

Interpreting Scriptures, the COMING of my Lord JESUS SHOULD HAPPEN UNTIL THE END OF THIS NEW DECADE after sudden destruction, starting by the current PESTILENCE (Matt.24:v.3and7) and destruction of the current gigantic world of the Devil, which is already going to the ETERNAL FIRE as was in Sodom and Gomorrah or even the death exclusively of the firstborn in Egypt, as two biblical examples of destruction.

By the way, the angel of the LORD, or better, the ARCHANGEL, is already wounding mortally the gigantic world of Devil and it will be until the appearance of the ruthless and bestial false messiah, THE SON OF PERDITION, and the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation.

Yes, the ARCHANGEL of the LORD is already wounding mortally the gigantic world of Devil, but there is a main target yet to be reached, that is to wound to death one of the seven heads of the Beast of the sea, whose man is described in Revelation 13:v.1-10, and whose head to be wounded is South America starting by the strongly IDOLATROUS Brazil. Follow the events from now on, day after day.

On the other hand, there will be resurrection of the dead now with the presence of the Archangel destroying this devilish world of Devil UNDER the order and command of the Most High and Almighty God.

The purpose of God was to reveal to the prophet Daniel, and JESUS CONFIRMED the prophecy, that "from the TIME that the ABOMINATION that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (1.290 days). Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days". - 1335 days - See, there is a glorious promise of blesses for all them that come to reach this SPECIAL and SPECIFIC day 1.335.

As you ALL can see I am focusing the period of Abomination of Desolation of 1.290 days or 3 years and 7 months or yet 43 months to all readers open the eyes for the day 1.335, whose SPECIAL and SPECIFIC day 1335 was revealed by God unto Daniel to record the Day of JESUS's COMING, that is 45 days after the END of the AD. The COMING of JESUS WILL NEVER BE OR HAPPEN BEFORE the day 1.335, but NEVER. Remember the cry out in Matthew 25:v.1to13-46.

That said I formulated two exemples for better understanding of the moment of JESUS's COMING pointed to happen 45 days after the END of the AD. Here is wisdom: Matt;24:v.15 - JESUS SAID: When ye therefore shall SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE - JERUSALEM-, (whoso readeth, let him understand) : Now see, The Abomination of Desolation was NOT ESTABLISHED YET, of course. But taking as a parameter, IF the AD had been established in 03 31, 2020, the COMING of JESUS would be as follows:

Yes, IF the Abomination of Desolation had been rise up and be manifested in the day 03 31,2020 - then the day 1.290 (3 years and 7 months or 43 months) would be 10 31,2023; plus 45 days --> day 1.335--> it will be december 15, 2023 in CHRISTIAN CALENDAR, this would be the day of JESUS coming;

Now see, IF the Abomination of Desolation had been rise up and be manifested at 04 01,2020 - then the day 1.290(3 years and 7 months or 43 months) would be 11 01,2023; plus 45 days -->day 1.335-->it will be 12 16,2023, this would be the day of JESUS coming;
And so on.
The examples above give us only a rough idea of when the WONDERFUL EVENT of the return of my Lord JESUS should occur, if we count the days as soon it be established the Abomination of Desolation in Jerusalem, understand? Remember the cry out in Matthew 25:v.1to13-46.

The AD will be established in the middle of the week(Daniel 9:v.27), that is the LAST week or the 70th week, and the LAST week WILL BEGIN SOON, very very soon, AS SOON AS MANIFEST THE FALSE MESSIAH OF THE JEWS, the son of perdition, a former Cherub, who is the BEAST OF THE EARTH, the Beast like a lamb (Rev.13:v.11-18), whose MAN WAS BORN DECADES AGO , YEAH, HE WAS BORN DECADES AGO and he is among the people of Israel ready to manifest himself as the messiah of the Jews TO SAVE HIS WORLD THAT IS BEING DESTROYED BY THE MOST HIGH and ALMIGHTY GOD.

About that IMPOSTER was prophesied by my Lord JESUS in John 5:v.43: - 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER (AN IMPOSTER, yes, AN IMPOSTOR) shall come in his OWN NAME (again: AN IMPOSTER), him ye will receive.

Remember: The ROCK IS JESUS

 

You missed my point, let me restate it, 95% of the people who think they are COVID-19 infected that are tested ARE testing negative for this virus. Therefore, this is yet another reason these over inflated pipe dreams that there is large number of people that have been infected that never had any symptoms, of which if true would most likely then become immune without severe symptoms (I'm not going to rabbit chase whether they will remain immune, T-cells/memory cells will be formed). This evidence goes against the wishful thinking that there are large numbers of asymptomatic/infected/immune people out there. Yet, their logic starts with this premise to make the claim that all these large numbers of immune people are out there. (usually followed by saying we don't know, while they still insist this is good reason to suggest reduction of the death rate and suggest this disease is not to taken as seriously). What kind of COVIDIOT thinking is that!!!

I am fully aware that the test for anti-bodies is another test. This was addressed by experts on the USA Coronavirus Task Force in the press conference yesterday as Dr. Fauci was explaining the strategy of how we could safely start getting people back into the workforce. They said, this test for anti-bodies was simpler, easier and faster BUT first we need to slow the spread by mitigating social distancing to get us to this point. Along with this test allowing people with antibodies to go back to work, once we are ahead of the spread we will have time to pinpoint infections, isolate, contact investigate and confine the spread.

Step #1 involves self-discipline and determination – this is about ALL OF US coming together to protect each other. It is the moral and patriotic thing to do. Note my donkey meme about the fools that need to be keep under control to get this step to be effective with as minimal of spread as possible. Yet we have a bunch of jackasses trying to persuade others that the social distancing is useless.

Back to the claim of imaginary large numbers of asymptomatic immune people already out there because they've been infected and didn't even know it:

IF this disease was spreading around for months before was there some kind of magic that kept the supposed 20% out of the hospital at that time while all these asymptomatics were being created??? Give me break with this pipe dream!!

It is now being suggested that the claims of "asymptomatic people" should be more accurately called "pre-symptomatic people" because they are not finding many people that have been infected and remain without any symptoms. What we have is WHOLE LOT of people that think they are infected but prove not to be as evidenced by the 95% negative rate...

 

The reports I’m reading are consistent with what you are saying as well that true completely asymptomatic cases are not that common but instead have very, very mild symptoms or subtle symptoms. Most of the time it is just the testing happens before these symptoms occur.

But percentage of negative tests on symptomatic people do not tell us how many asymptomatic carriers there are. If you draw a 4 quadrant table where the columns are symptomatic and asymptomatic and the rows are positive and negative, remember that almost all the tests will be on the symptomatic column since we don’t test asymptomatic people as a general rule. So the percentage of negative tests doesn’t tell you about how many asymptomatic people would have tested positive.

 

Yes, but you not see or think there is a problem with that people are trying to suggest large numbers of asymptomatic people based on an unknown, plus they suggest that these asymptomatic people were created at a time before people were headed to the hospitals or even before the any known cases were here, plus the suggestion of assuming there are many asymptomatic people when it is proving out that it is more likely pre-symptomatic people with more mild symptoms, plus the 95% IS being applied to people that are symptomatic but NOT with COVID-19 which goes along very well with that these attempts to suggest all these asymptomatic people are as false as those numbers prove about symptomatic people not being infected with COVID-19 ...YET people are clinging to the COVIDIOT idea that there must be all these asymptomatic people out there and are using this idea to discount the severity of the need of social distancing WHICH IS A DANGER and contradicts the important focus our experts are telling us we must be diligent at accomplishing?

 

You’ve been reading my posts right? Of course I am with you there.

We just shouldn’t be using incorrect math/stats to justify that position. And we don’t need to.

Even if there are a lot of asymptomatic carriers out there that lower the overall percentages of hospitalization and death, it won’t change the absolute number of people in hospital overloading the health system and dying that we already are seeing. That has been a consistent function of confirmed cases. Using asymptomatic cases as a reason to say this is nothing to worry about is terrible math, terrible logic and denial of the present reality.

 

Exactly, and it is the errand of a fool to jump on that bandwagon.

 

The purpose of drawing out logical truth is to incite the importance to be diligent on taking precautions, a matter in which you dangerously attempt to refute based on nothing more than panic over the economy and wishful thinking.

Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya…

 

Aaron is mad about the media creating a panic about the Coronavirus. Aaron wants to create an economic panic instead. Self defeating logic.

 

Case fatality rate (CFR) is by definition the fatality rate of confirmed cases. For health systems that are not overwhelmed, it is pretty low for Covid19, around or under 1%, which is still around 10 times the CFR for influenza which is 0.1%. I can show you data for both numbers so you don’t have to take my word for it.

The understood assumption of CFR is that there are some cases that are missed which is true for all diseases whether it is lack of testing or asymptomatic patients or missed diagnoses. But we can’t calculate a fatality rate for a number we do not know, especially if we haven’t done studies yet of the general population to detect those cases. After those studies are done, you can then model the actual fatality rate based on estimations of missed cases. It is usually still fairly close to the CFR because while you miss cases (the denominator) you also miss deaths (the numerator).

And I’ve said this many times now but the fatality rate is not the main problem of covid19 which is on the low side (when health systems are not overwhelmed). It is how infective it is, how frequently cases need hospitalization and how quickly it overwhelms a health system that is the problem with covid19.

 

19 is a more infectious than the usual flu at this time but not as infectious as the measles. The problem with American statistics is that we are not spending the money to accurately determine cause of death and we have no idea how many people have had it and did not know it. Because of the size of our population and the size of the land mass of the country, we never will have a scientific report. We were caught flat-footed by this pandemic at a time in our history when there is no cooperation from the left on anything. The only country in the world with an intelligent response to this pandemic was Taiwan.

N95 masks are impossible to find. If we had them, we could re-open our economy.

Australia is much more liberal than the USA and has no Bill of Rights so I suppose that the people of Australia are more used to regimentation and government control and socialized medicine. Nevertheless, they should not look to the USA as a model of how to react. We have places such as the Soviet Republic of Minnesota where the government is monitoring prices but ignoring crime and has a snitch line where people can report on others for the slightest little things. In the UK, they are complaining that people are going out into wide-open spaces for walks with their dogs. Google, on all android phones, has been tracking everyone with a google app and could inform to the government where you were when. In Canada, businesses are not allowing truck drivers delivering to them access to washrooms. I work in factory warehouse section and truck drivers are always welcome to use our washrooms. Truck drivers and stock boys are heroes of this mess that we are in. China is widely hated now.