1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Why is all Israel not Israel???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother Bob, Nov 7, 2007.

Top Posters
Page 5 of 8
  1. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the tips.
    I just hit the "Quote" button on the bottom right and type my response below the html.
     
    #81 Isaiah40:28, Nov 11, 2007
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    That works if you want to put the whole post in quotes, but when you want to just put a portion, you have to use the top right one.

    BBob,
     
    #82 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why? Is your basement flooded?

    Just kidding, I know what you meant...
     
    #83 npetreley, Nov 11, 2007
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Jesus was referring to Himself as the presence of the Kingdom within their midst. What is wrong with this reading?

    2. It is similar to what He said to a group of Pharisees on another occasion (Matt 12:28). He cast out demons by the Spirit of God, therefore the Kingdom was in their midst. But the fundamental quesition to be asked Is How was the Kingdom in their midst?

    3. I propose that it was in their midst in the ministry of Jesus.
     
    #84 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  5. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can do whatever you want with the "quote" button.
    It works everytime, no matter how you want to slice and dice someone's post.
    I think it would remove some of the formatting issues that your posts frequently exhibit.
     
    #85 Isaiah40:28, Nov 11, 2007
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because He had just said, you can't see "IT" !!
    If its in their mist or among them, they could see "IT".

    I think they could see Him, don't you and the Kingdom cometh not by seeing.

    Well, do you believe they could see Jesus??? He went on to say, its within you and you can't see it. They could see Jesus though.

    Let me see TC;
    Question;
    1. Could they see Jesus???

    2. Could they see the Kingdom according to scripture that says it comes not by observation???

    BBob,
     
    #86 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  7. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Apology accepted.

    Congrats on hitting 10K posts.

    And I'd say your disagreement is still with Lockman Foundation, as TCGreek was also quoting the NASB.

    My personal suggestion on the best rendering of Lk. 17:21 is... Sorry, gotta' run.

    My bride needs me to help her catch the cat! :laugh:

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/877560/cat_wakes_up_owner/

    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


    Ed
     
    #87 EdSutton, Nov 11, 2007
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. According to Edersheim and many others, the kingdom of God was understood by the Jews as the rule of God. That they could have seen in the midst of them in the ministry of Jesus.

    2. With the ministry of Jesus is the beginning of the end, the now-not-yet kingdom.


    3. You are talking about a translation of within you. What about among you?

    4. Was the kingdom of God in the midst of the Pharisees when He said what He said in Matt 12:28?
     
    #88 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  9. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    In Jews' mind of kingdom, they want their Messiah to take over Roman Empire and rule over the world as Jerusalem as world's capitol. In their mind that they are expecting Messiah shall set the kingdom upn earth as literal physical and political rule.

    Jesus told them, it is not come with observation, it is within them, it is speak of spiritual come from heaven.

    Premills believe Christ shall bring the kingdom to Jerusaslem, and will set it as world's capitol for a thousand years.

    But, Christ already bring kingdom to the world 2000 years ago. Itself is a good news talk about Jesus Christ, calvary, resurrection, salvation, and reign.

    Christ already given the kingdom to the Church by the Holy Spirit on Pentacost Day of Acts chapter 2. Itself is a gospel that the Church received the power from Christ - Matt. 16:18-19.

    Premill believes kingdom will be presence to the world from Jerusalem in physical for 1000 years.

    But, Dan. 7:14,18, and 27 telling us, the saints(Christians) already receive the kingdom of God and they already possess it, it is an everlasting kingdom, not temporary, so called, "millennial kingdom", as premills named it.

    We have to accept the fact what Christ said to the Pharisees that, itself not come with observation, it is come within us from above is spiritual and eternality kingdom. It is mystery, but we have faith what the Bible saying. We as Christians already received the power given by Holy Spirit to preach the gospel to the world of what? Kingdom. Kingdom is all about Jesus Christ.

    Notice two words of 'kingdom' - King + dom. dom is short word for 'dominion' means sovereign or reign.

    Christ already sit on the right hand of God the Father in heaven since his resurrection, Christ is already exalted by God the Father to made Him a King over heaven and earth 2000 yeasr ago. We do not need wait for Jesus to 'become' King. He is now already King. We have the right to worshipping Christ, because He is our King. He is now reigning both heaven and earth from his throne.

    When He shall come again, his reign never stop, He will continue reigning forever and ever without end. Kingdom have no end, it is everlasting.

    That what the kingdom is all about.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #89 DeafPosttrib, Nov 11, 2007
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Comes not by observation, in other words they couldn't see it, so it was "within", surely you can do better than that TC;

    BBob,
     
    #90 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I sure will amen that DeafPosttrib, God Bless,

    BBob, :praying:
     
    #91 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    And here I thought you were asking me for help. Thanks, it does work better.

    BBob,
     
    #92 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good one Ed.................:)

    If I ever catch him out, I take care of him...............[​IMG]
     
    #93 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  14. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. That is not necessarily the case, for on Pentecost Peter pointed to what the people could hear and see as the result of the indwelling Spirit (Acts 2:33). Here the people were able to see what was in the inside.

    2. Neither does it make sense for the Kingdom to be in some blood-thirsty Pharisees---rather, the kingdom was in their midst in the ministry of Jesus.

    3. I see you make no attempts to deal with my arguments from Matt 12:28.
     
    #94 TCGreek, Nov 12, 2007
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think they knew according to Prophecy what was taking place. Please show me where they could see on the inside.
    Are you saying now that the Pharisees could see inside???

    It amazes me that you call them blood-thirsty Pharisees when they were the Jews who you say the covenant is yet to come to.

    If so, then Jesus told false, for He said they could not see it, and they not only saw Him, but talked with Him. You are grabbing at straws now TC;


    Matt 12:28
    28: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29: Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

    Read the next verse and see that it was on the inside of his house.

    Mat 7:24¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    BBob,
     
    #95 Brother Bob, Nov 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2007
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. But that is not what the text is saying. Read it again!

    2. Reread Luke 17:20, 21 and you will see that Jesus was counterarguing their views about their concept of the kingdom--they didn't have to look for what was already in their midst.

    [/QUOTE]

    3. BBob, Why are you ignoring what the Bible says--Jesus cast out demons; the Pharisees who witnessed what He was doing, said it was because the prince of the demons--Jesus said it was due to the Spirit (v.28) and the kingdom presence in His ministry--What in the house are you talking about?
     
    #96 TCGreek, Nov 12, 2007
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is what it says too. Please read what Peter said unto Israel, that was once blinded, and what they should do.

    Act 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    You getting deeper all the time TC;...........:)

    You have already stated in the past that the Kingdom is within us, so we don't need to go around again.

    You never read to count up the cost before you begin to build, least men mock you???

    BBob,
     
    #97 Brother Bob, Nov 12, 2007
  18. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. I do not understand what you're saying here.


    2. For me to say that must be a mistake. Where did I say bases on Luke 17:21 that the Kingdom was within us--Jesus was addressing some Pharisees, not believers.

    3. What is your point? Are you representing what I have said correctly?


    4. What does that have to do with the text?
     
    #98 TCGreek, Nov 12, 2007
  19. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the words of the late President Harry S. Truman:
    :thumbs: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
    #99 EdSutton, Nov 12, 2007
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    ,
    Post #38
    BB;
    He seems to have a handle on the fact that we are in the Kingdom, that is good and unlike others who are still looking for it.

    TC;
    3. At one level we are in the kingdom, but at another we are not, for it is awaiting its ultimate consummation.


    Post #46
    BB:
    Col 1:13
    10: That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
    11: Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
    12: Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
    13: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (past tense)
    14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    TC:
    3. I already said that we are in one phase of the
    kingdom.





    Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

    Col 1:13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    Rev 1:9¶I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    BBob,
     
    #100 Brother Bob, Nov 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2007
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 5 of 8
Loading...